3rd Degree the Podcast #377

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Third Degree, the Third Degree Ned Podcast. Third Degree the Third Degree Nap Podcast. Third Degree the Third Degree Nap Podcast. Third Degree, the Third Degree Nap Podcast Livery Read. [00:00:26] Speaker B: The podcast is brought to you by Patreons like you. If you've enjoyed this podcast, enjoyed our coverage of SC Dallas Athletico, Dallas, North Texas, SC Dallas Trinity. Why not join us with a little support on the Patreon? Come in at any level you like. If you could even jump up to the discord level and get in on the great conversation that happens there every day. Thanks again for your support. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Well, hello there, DFW Soccer. Curious. Welcome to another episode of Third Degree, the podcast International Break Edition. There he is. Dennis. Wait, wait. Dennis isn't wearing a hat. What is happening? And what have you done with Dennis? [00:01:10] Speaker B: Where's the. [00:01:10] Speaker C: How's this one for you guys? [00:01:11] Speaker A: Oh, look, look. Buzz is Dennis. [00:01:14] Speaker B: It's first in the east, near Giants. [00:01:17] Speaker A: First place. New York Giants. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Yeah, Dennis. My wife's a Giants fan, and this weekend she was like, how the hell are the Giants in first place? It's like, I don't know. They're terrible. And she's like, yeah, terrible. How are they in Brisbane? [00:01:27] Speaker C: They're a quarterback away, you know. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And also, look who they played. So. But yeah, congrats on the good season to your Giants. [00:01:35] Speaker C: Take what I can get out of it, you know, first. [00:01:37] Speaker B: First quarter, by the way, Can. Yeah. [00:01:39] Speaker A: And all the way up in the Chile Pacific Northwest, it's editor, founder of thirddegree.net Buzz Carrot coming, Buzz. [00:01:47] Speaker B: I'll have you know it's 76 degree today. I actually had to take off my sweater. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Oh, you poor thing. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Sorry. We're gonna be mad. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Well, very good. Well, it is international break weekend, guys. I think a little bit of administrative talk will do on Dallas and Trinity, and maybe we will get into the US Current state that we kind of previewed last week, if you guys want to do that. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Peter, can I just take a moment to mention this is the 377th regular edition of this podcast, which is not a landmark, but it's a lot. So sometimes I forget to stop and smell the roses about how long we've been doing this. [00:02:33] Speaker A: 377 have a specific value or meaning to you? [00:02:37] Speaker B: Nope. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Oh, why didn't you say this at 376? [00:02:41] Speaker B: Because it didn't occur to me. Because I was looking at that number today and I was like, that's a big number. [00:02:46] Speaker C: 377. That's what, three, Lucas? [00:02:49] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. 377 or Mario. [00:02:52] Speaker C: Three Bernie Camongos. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Come on. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Three Bernie Camungos. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Stick with Mario Lemieux. [00:03:01] Speaker A: We've only. We only need one Bernie Camungo. [00:03:04] Speaker C: Dennis, there is only one Bernie Camongo. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Quill does have more kids coming, so. [00:03:10] Speaker A: Wait, is his wife pregnant? [00:03:12] Speaker B: No, he's got a couple sons in the academy. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, got it. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Two, I believe. Other than Bernie, Bernie's the oldest one. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Got it. All right. Well, as we record this on a Monday for publication, I assume on a Tuesday. Buzz. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, just. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Morning. Good old football club Dallas finds itself in third place in the west, tied on 47 points with St. Louis. They're tied on wins with 13. So that's first tiebreaker. So Dallas falls to three because I think the second tiebreaker is goal differential. Is that correct, Buzz? I believe that's correct, yeah. So the goal differential is St. Louis is on 12, and Dallas is on 8. Lo and behold, it is October 5th, boys and girls, and your burn is in third place in the west, lo and behold. And next up, they travel to Charlotte to play on the turf at bank of America Stadium. I think it is still called this weekend. So, boys, anything in particular you'd like to talk about on FC Dallas? [00:04:19] Speaker B: Well, I think we should probably discuss where we think SC Dallas is in terms of, like, their real potential to do anything. You know, is this a mirage? Are they really as good as third place? I think there's some dialogue to be had there. Do you not agree? I'll let you. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Dennis. [00:04:39] Speaker C: I. Well, I think there's definitely a lot to talk about in regards to that. I mean, first and foremost, I think, what is this club's best 11? I don't think we've even decided that yet this year. And I don't think we know what that is here. I know we've got a couple ideas as to who fills in and what spot. There are a couple locked positions, but I think, you know, even looking all the way at the back at goalkeeper, there's still some questions about who's starting when and who's healthy enough to play. And, you know, has Sir Watt performed enough to earn a sp. And a lot of open questions about, you know, just who slots where, looking ahead and looking down the stretch here. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Well, I think if you. If you eliminate health from that equation, I think Quill has settled into an almost 11, and I'd say 10 out of 11, if everyone is healthy, then Daniel's in goal. Yes. You agree? [00:05:25] Speaker C: Sure. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Right now, Sebastian Iaga is starting over. Nolan Sebastian's the choice. So It's Sebastian Moore and Oz in the back. Bernie's on one side. Sorry. So this is. There's two positions in flex right back is right wing backs in flex right. Herman Johansson and Ran Benyamin. Those two guys the last three or four weeks have gone back and forth. But the, the other one that's in flex is the alternative 10 because moose is a lock. Joaquin Valiente is a lock, Kaika's a lock, Ramirez a lock. So the only other position in flux is the second 10. Santiago Moreno vs. Logan Farrington vs. Well, not Patricson Delgado anymore. Sometimes it's a kai Kai press 10 and then you get Capis in the midfield. But like so that's it. There's two positions that are not locked in my opinion based on depending on health of course. Obviously Daniel's recurring whatever that he re aggravated means that Sara is right in there. Of course. But if Daniel's healthy then there's not. That's not a debate either. So especially more of a locked 11 than I feel like they've had in a long time really. I mean only two positions really up for consideration for competition. I don't think. [00:06:38] Speaker C: I mean you said Abiaga is the lock over Nolan, but that's for right now. We don't know if that, I mean that, that feels like it could change and it feels like there's a lot of rotation at the back. But if you're going into a one, you know, eliminate single elimination playoff match, the. Is that who you start? Do you start ibia? [00:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think right now you do. I think if you're talking about I got one game if you plan over Nolan. Nolan has not started unless there was a rotation or less an injury need or a little player call up in about three or four weeks. So you know, it's no knock on Nolan and it's okay. Nolan and it's okay. I did a burn on this actually because when you're in this high in the standings, some things like playing for the future go out the window a little bit. So it's perfectly okay that you know that if the coach thinks to be out is out playing him, which he is, that he started ahead of Nolan. Nolan's time will come eventually. So now again every single week there's going to be injuries, there's going to be call ups, there's going to be need for rotation a little bit based on schedule. So it's, it's not dead solid lock. But you know Quill doing this whole thing about what our best 11 is. Is like, well, you know what nine and 11 are. It's only a couple of tweaks, you know, that. That can change things. That 10 and that. Right back. Right one back. That's it. I think. [00:07:49] Speaker A: So at this point, with the games that they have left and discussing what the potential for the team is, including the fact that we all have a pretty clear acceptance that this team is what it is. It's buzz. How did you describe it initially? Eric Quill's team isn't going to out soccer you. How did you. That was my favorite. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Yeah, they're not gonna outsock you. They're just gonna. That's it. Really. Because we talk all the time about, you know, the pinnacle of what I. I would call sort of pure soccerness was the great Barcelona teams or the great Spain teams when they won Euro and World cup back to back. That sort of ticky, tacky, like, beautiful game all over the field. Right. Well, Quill doesn't play beautiful soccer. He plays. I'm gonna outscore you soccer at least this. With this team. He does anyway, so that's. That's what I mean. It's like FC Dallas is really, really good at scoring more than you. They're not very good at beautiful soccer. You know, it's just, it's. And it probably would depend on how you, you know, would describe soccer. I'm sure Quill would say his team plays great soccer, but I. I don't think they do. I think they play terrible soccer. Trinity, Dallas. Trinity. The opposite. Dallas Trinity plays great soccer, but they're not really good at scoring or keeping balls out of the goal. So they're kind of the other opposite of the equation. Yeah. [00:09:07] Speaker C: At the end of the day, the average fan. The average fan. I'm not talking about the average listener here, but the average fan just wants to, you know, want to see wins and they want to see goals scored. And that is what's happening. [00:09:17] Speaker B: I think another way from that, I like to think of it, is that when you play beautiful soccer, think of the Brazilians, the. The jogo bonito, the fancy moves, the passing, the flare. Well, Eric Quill's team comes ready for a boxing match, and they get in the ring and they punch you in the face and they win the game. And that's not Jo Bonito. That's not Ticky Taggy. That's not beautiful soccer by almost anyone's definition, but it's not games. [00:09:44] Speaker A: But it's also slightly different from. And we always use this as kind of the pinnacle of this in MLS which was the 2010 rapids team that beat Dallas and MLS cup which was Gary Smith's just packed the box. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not, it's not ugly. It's. It's a paradigm of a very modern game which is where possession has lost value. The high press and turning somebody over and getting chances out of quick opportunities or when you do get it playing forward, not booted long ball. This isn't booted long ball but it's a rapid accelerating throttle down attack. It's never like only very. In the last month probably maybe even since the World cup we've seen them try to play the ball a little bit more around. They're having occasionally games like the one recently where they who against lafc where the first half they had a lot of possession, in the second half they didn't, you know, because La part played a bunch of defensive defenders. [00:10:43] Speaker C: So they are trying to fight football. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah, they are trying to play a little bit more of that pretty sort of possession, sort of build up soccer but they don't care about that. They care about winning. They care about scoring more than you in a knife fight boxing match. Whatever it is, it's not, it's not, it's not a bad thing to win like this. This is the modern game we see Peterson Hull in the Premier League is having some relative success by playing this same kind of game where they don't give a crap about the ball but when they get it they go fast towards goal and they have these buildups that are just a coup passes and then they're on on net and getting prolific chances. Now FC Dallas of course is a pretty ruthless finishing team too because of Patusa is such so clinical in the box. So when they get, when they get the ball in the good scoring chances they have a really high conversion rate and when we see them get above 30% we get towards 50 shots on target. That's when they really excel. So their, their qualities of the game that are really, really good but it's not by anyone's definition I don't think a beautiful soccer. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Somebody asked me the other day if this team didn't have Peter Musa, would it be in this position? And my. I think the obvious answer is no. [00:11:47] Speaker B: No. [00:11:48] Speaker A: But I also think there's something. There's an. I think we're missing out on another player because I don't think it's singularly Musa that has caused this effect. And I'm not 100 sure I can put my finger on who that other player is. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Oh Yeah, I can. That's Joaquin Valiente. [00:12:07] Speaker A: That's why I asked you the question. I knew you'd have the answer. You know. [00:12:10] Speaker B: You know you knew what the answer was. [00:12:12] Speaker C: Are we gonna start talking about assists again? [00:12:14] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I'm not getting into that weeds. Look, whatever you care about, think about the metric that MLS uses. They use a consistent metric across the league, so they're by their measure. Joaquin Valiente has 13 assists. He's tied with Messi, I believe, at the top of the league. He's got within sights the FC Dallas single season record, which is held by Jason Christ, I believe, at 15. So, you know, whatever you want to use, that's their metric. That's fine. The point is that he's playing really good soccer. He's become a real playmaking 10 while he also does the hard work, the dirty work of a modern 10, the high press when necessary. So without Musa, would they be as good? No, they would not be as good. I mean, Logan Farrington is a solid player, but. But we've seen Logan Farrington, Dennis, you know, go in for Musa and start games for Musa when he's been gone international and it's okay, but it isn't. Peter Musa is. It's not the same pet as better Musa. [00:13:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's not even the same play style. Right. Farrington plays a little bit different, plays a little, obviously a little bit slower than Musa, but he's, you know, Farrington's a little bit more of a touch around the box guy when, when, you know, Musa wants to just power it in from wherever he's at. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah, we've discussed before that Farrington actually, we think plays better off the shoulder of a striker as the sort of a Jason Christ style second guy, even though he has a little bit more height like Musa doesn't, has the frame like Musa does, he plays better off Musa. Part of that's the quality of Musa, you know, and for me, like, that's why at this point, Farrington should be that second 10 in a sense, even though it's not really, when he does it as a 10, it's almost like a, a 10 with a, with an off guy, you know, whatever the, the old school 9, 10, you know, the Jason Christ style. But, you know, I think makes a [00:14:01] Speaker C: little bit more sense if there is a, you know, if there's a little bit of depth to this roster. But we've talked about this here a few times now. There isn't really anybody behind him. I mean, there's there's guys behind him on the roster, but there's nobody up to play quality. There's nobody up to come in for Musa off the bench. [00:14:14] Speaker B: I mean, there's probably a couple guys in the whole league that are capable of playing like Musa. I mean, Nick Simmons has got a nice physical body and presence and he has some raw skills that when they all come together in two or three years, might be worth talking about. But he's, you know, what is he, 19? Maybe going on 20 by this point, but he's a few years away even from Logan Farrington quality, and he may never get there. We don't know. He's raw player, so you never know how guys are going to develop. So there's really. Other than Farrington, there really isn't anybody you can play as a nine. You'd have to go to some crazy man. I don't even know. It'd probably be. I mean, it probably would be Simmons, but like after, you know, it wouldn't be great. And Delgado maybe would be the other. I mean, Asante Moreno is a nine, but Santi's, you know, limited some. A bit, you know, so it's not good after, after Musa and Farrington. It ain't good up there. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Yeah, we've. We've spent a lot of time this year just talking about players and tactics and styles and everything. But it. But with the amount of games that are left, which is. What is it, six games left this season? Is that. Am I counting it right? 1, 2, 3, 4, 7. 1, 2, 3, 4,. [00:15:21] Speaker B: 5. [00:15:21] Speaker A: 7 games with 7 games left leading into it, and with the form this last year of this particular format of the playoffs, they're not going. I mean, assuming they don't collapse or whatever, they won't be one of the playing teams, they'll be one of the seated teams. Right. And at this point, they. I think I'm saying this correct. They'll actually have home field advantage in a best of three setup. Correct. [00:15:48] Speaker B: If you're in the top four, you will. Yeah. [00:15:50] Speaker A: So. Man, that just sounds so crazy to think. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:54] Speaker A: That that would be the case. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Well, keep in mind that Houston in fifth is on 44 points. They're just three points back, so. [00:16:00] Speaker A: Sure. You know, that's the point I'm trying to make is just based on this team's history over the season now, they've gotten way better at home since the World cup than they were prior. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Do we actually have a preference of placement? Is the preference the team that we. That they potentially end up facing? Or is it home field advantage in a best of three? What is the preference of those two? [00:16:26] Speaker B: Well, you don't want St. Louis right now. They, they haven't lost in like 17 games or something. Insane. They're the hottest team in the league. I think the home field advantage is worth a lot in that first round because after that it gets to be knockout. And so really the home field advantage, as good as FC Dallas is on the road, you still want home field advantage? Yes. Dallas is capable beating anybody on the road. So I actually think that like it doesn't matter which teams you end up getting. You know, it is nicer to have home advantage. It is nicer to have home field advantage in that best of three. You probably would want the team that's cratering, you know, Seattle also getting hot. You know, you probably would more want like a LAFC who's falling or a San Jose who's just kind of muddling along, you know, or maybe obviously the 8, 9 playing game. But that's going to go against the number one seed, which is probably going to be Vancouver. Although they're only three points ahead of Dallas at this point, which is amazing. [00:17:26] Speaker C: Well, they've got a game to make up this week too. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah, they have a game at hand. [00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Plus 33 goal differential. But they also don't have Sebastian Bear Halter anymore who was, you know, just an amazing player. So they're not as good as they were, but they're still very, very good, you know, and anyone in the top three, four, five of the west is really, really good. You know, you got to go down past six, down to like seven, eight, nine, really in Seattle, as I said, is heating up too. So you never know who it's going to get, you know. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say that the advantage of the position of being top four is that if you win through your, you went out through your best of three, you arguably are going to be the home team for the knockout game. [00:18:09] Speaker B: Yeah, you would hope so. Well, you'd have to get into the top two to guarantee that. Right, Wouldn't you? After your. [00:18:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, it goes straight to semi finals, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Because it's only three games in that first round, which is where you get 1 through 4 versus 5 through 8 effectively. And so the second round there's only be four teams left. Not counting the play in game. After this first round there's only gonna be four teams left in the west. And so you would want, that's you want to be top two Ideally, yeah. So you get at least that second. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:41] Speaker B: Home game. [00:18:42] Speaker A: I mean, it seems kind of silly to be discussing any of this at this point. It's just a free weekend. So thought would I at least ask the question? [00:18:49] Speaker C: I mean, there's only a handful of games left, right. Like there's not all that much. I mean, things can move up and down, but they, they really do control their own destiny for the most part. [00:18:58] Speaker A: And. [00:18:58] Speaker C: And if you look at the teams they've got remaining. Yeah, there are a couple tough spots. Seattle on the way up on the upswing, you know, tough Texas Darby game coming up. But you know, you've got. You finish the season with. With kc Right. Like so they're. They're beatable clubs here and they really do control their own destiny here, I think. [00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah. This one. Actually Charlotte's not super easy. They're fourth in the east, so. [00:19:19] Speaker C: But they'll be without Tim Ream too, who picked up a double yellow and so he'll be out. And this is off the first time they're. They've ever been to Charlotte. So the first regular season matchup between these two clubs ever. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Dallas is three points away. Well, let's say six. Let's say Vancouver makes up the game with their bonus game that they. The game in hand, they have. They're six points away from first and they're 11 points ahead of the Mendoza Line for the knockout games. And even then they're. Holy cow, they are. Is that 15 points out of the Mason Dixon line of just not even being in the playoffs at all? That is ridiculous. How high in the standings in the point collection they have tallied. And I can't figure out if that is a really good testament to this team or is a statement of just how mediocre the west is this season. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Well, everyone is. Everyone is not Nashville. I mean, Nashville's on already on 60 points. And they said on the same 27 games they got. They got seven games to play too. So, you know, that's his. The team that at the end of the day is everyone's going to have their eyes on. But there's a lot of parity in the west and a lot of the traditional powers are sort of middle right now. But lfc, LAFC has played and LA Galaxy both have played an extra game that everybody else. And they're going the wrong way. You know, Portland is not as good as we usually think of them as being. Salt Lakes stumbled for sure. You know, Seattle was stumbling, but seems to have recovered a little bit, you know, so those teams that are traditionally not superpowers, San Jose, St. Louis, other than their first season, you know, Colorado in eighth, those are not usually teams you expect to sort of see in the mix. FC Dallas, frankly, you know, the last seven or eight years, I mean, SB Dallas, Oscar Prayer and earlier, yes, all time in the playoffs. But last few years it's been hit or miss, 50 or worse, you know, so. [00:21:14] Speaker A: All right, guys. Well, Charlotte on Saturday. Buzz, you want to talk about lineups? [00:21:18] Speaker B: Well, yeah, but I want to raise a small concern I have going into this game. [00:21:24] Speaker A: This is called the buzz kill portion of the Buzz. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Well, it's. This is actually a big Quill test because his players just had a big chunk of time off and his team is a warrior mentality team. It's a ready for the battle. It's a. They were on a roll, they were cruising, they were feeling really good about themselves and they all just went on vacation. So that's my slight concern is how well will Quill get them back in town, back training, back fired up and, and fighting fit form mentality to go on the road and get right back into it and be right where you were. That's all. It's just like young coach team. That's about their mentality. Okay, that's a little bit of worry. [00:22:09] Speaker A: But isn't that a question you would ask any team coming out of this break? [00:22:12] Speaker B: You would, but Quill is inexperienced, he's a young coach. So, okay, you know, and, and this team is in particular, this team is about the mentality like this when the bank, the games have gone wrong. How often does he talk about, we weren't, we weren't, didn't have the right mindset, we weren't prepared mentally, we didn't have it all focused, you know, like that comes up a lot when they haven't been good, particularly in the back half of the season. So that's, for me, that's. That's my concern going into this game. I'm not afraid of Charlotte on the field at all. I think they're probably a relatively even sort of team to where FC Dallas is in their talent ability. That's just my only question, you know, that's all. It's not a giant question. It's just one that's like, okay, let's see, coach, what do you got? [00:22:54] Speaker A: You know, Charlotte's coming off a 1o loss at home to Chicago, but prior to that, they were undefeated in their prior six or seven games. In fact, Chicago's the only team that has beaten them since they lost to New York back in June. Holy crap. May 13, which last season. Yeah. Yeah, it does feel like it. So, you know, Charlotte's coming in on a pretty good. Pretty good run of form, so. And they're playing at home, so there you go. Good stuff for them, by the way. Charlotte, just for the record, just so everybody knows, Charlotte is fourth in the east and they do have a home record of 7, 3 and 4. Dallas goes into this with a. An away record of 7, 4 and 3. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Yeah, right now we're at a phase where the teams that have been hot post World cup are the ones climbing high up into the standings. FC Dallas, St. Louis, Seattle, lately, Charlotte probably falls in that category. Chicago has been pretty hot, you know, in the back half of the season, I think so Nashville hot all year. So, you know, those are the. That's part of the course when you're going to get a team in the top half of the Saints now that they're going to be pretty hot. But if we want to talk about first 11, obviously Ramiro's back, so he'll be in. Daniel's the question mark. Remember, he had that little bit of an aggravation of his upper leg. At least we got an upper. Not just leg. Got an upper leg. But really that's it. Nobody else with an injury problem we know of. Everyone should be back from international duty, we believe. No suspensions that we're aware of. By the way, Daniel is on a yellow card watch. If he gets a yellow card, he would be suspended. So keep an eye on that. So I think it's just as we talked about. I mean, I don't think there's any people missing. You know, can Daniel go? And otherwise it's going to be more Oz and Ibiaga. I think the Johansson, Benyamin things are still. Still a question mark. You know, Johansson got that one start when Ryan had. I believe Benjamin had already left and that. And it started the international window. So Johansson was in there. So that'll be. If Vinyami walks back in and gets it, that'll be pretty indicative that he's won that spot. Bernie will be back. Hopefully Musa comes out of his call up healthy. Valiante is a given. And then it's just that extra spot, that extra 10 spot. And I think it's been. Ferrington's been better than Moreno in my opinion, but I'm not the coach, so that could easily be Santi Moreno, it could easily be Kaik High Press. I think that was probably more of a fill in sort of stop gap than like an all time kind of thing, but possible. So it's a pretty straightforward choice when you come off a two week break. [00:25:33] Speaker C: They throw a little bit of a monkey wrench in your choices there. But you've got. We're recording this on Monday, Tuesday when this drops. Croatia is still yet to play and so is Israel's U22. U21s rather. So Benjamin and Musa, let's say they go on Tuesday. Do you still want them on Saturday? Do you. Does Quill still want to pull them in? And. And do you want to pull in Musa on turf on Saturday? [00:25:57] Speaker B: I would think. Well, it'll depend on how Musa feels when it gets off a plane, you know, when you're coming back from Europe, both of those guys. But Benjamin's really young and you know, depending on whether he plays or not, you know, no problem. Those, he and Johansson are really, really tight in their competition. So it could just easily be Kohens and has been, I mean, for that very reason right there. Maybe he feels like he just got off a plane. We'll go ahead and go with Johansson this time. But Musa, Musa's different. It's like if Musa feels good if he gets off a plane and whatever was, you know, he had before where he looked like he was 90 or 85 right before he left and he even sat out the first game, didn't play for Croatia. You know, if he goes again, if that plane flight is tough, you know, always a possibility. Always a possibility. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Moussa got pulled at halftime in that drubbing, that seven nothing drubbing against England over the weekend and probably, I don't know, I mean, he didn't do much. He missed his one really clear chance. That's the second time in a row he started a game for Croatian, got pulled at halftime and so not, not in this window like the previous one, I believe was the last time he appeared for them in the World Cup. This is the only time he's played. I don't even know if he'll play tomorrow, Buzz. He may be a sub. I don't know if he'll start tomorrow or not. We'll find out. That game's at 1:45 on Tuesday. [00:27:13] Speaker B: Well, it would be good for Dallas and if it being on Tuesday, that gives him more time to get on the plane and get back and then, you know, get rested and recuperated. There have been cases where guys have played and then ridden on a 20 hour flight and seized up, you know if you will come out of it and been like you know what I can't give me a, give me a day or two coach, you know so we'll see. Big guy, small seat, long flights, you know, sitting still, you know, not you get up and walk around a bunch, [00:27:41] Speaker A: you know who pays for that travel? Is that the Croatian national team that's fronting that bill or is it Dallas? [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Or if they get them business class. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Well maybe that will behoove us to upgrade it if it is a business. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Clark's got some miles on American air you can hand him and said here, here's an upgrade for you Slice charter [00:28:00] Speaker B: dude, come on they got him. We got fun black commercial. [00:28:03] Speaker A: I'm sure he was lifetime, you know status before he got his pj so [00:28:07] Speaker C: he's got the credit card. [00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah, he can always buy him an upgrade 100%. [00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I was talking to somebody yesterday and they were like oh I get my air pass and I was like get out of here. Care pets. [00:28:19] Speaker C: Speaking of upgrades, we want to give any credence to Moose's comments about the goal being to get back to Europe. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Well, you know, I'm sure always true but he is 28 and he's pretty happy here and I think that he would be hard pressed to find somebody that will pay him more than SC Dallas would pay him. You know if AC Milan calls or you know or Byron or you know, I don't know someone that's got a paycheck that's pretty open fuldom they got money on they Chelsea. I mean sure, but like how many teams can pay him, pay him more than se House will pay him. [00:29:01] Speaker A: We don't and we still don't know what that deal is. [00:29:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean he's, he should be due for a new deal. Like obviously this sort of discussion. I think that those quotes are dropping because his agent told him to say that as part of your negotiating with FC Dallas for a new deal. Yeah, you know it's not a coincidence that as this season is winding down we're starting to see those quotes floated and those stories floated. So it's. I think it's just agent negotiations. I think he's quite happy here. You know if it was going to happen it would have happened at the World cup probably. You know this window, winter window, not so much. Maybe next summer more likely. I think, I think they'll probably get him done, get him signed up to a good chunk of change and at [00:29:44] Speaker A: the end of the day a Lot of it's going to have to do with not just finding a team that's willing to pay him, but it's also a team willing to front out whatever Dallas is asking for him, which is probably still a stiff bill. I don't think it's the 12. I don't even think it's a double digit million dollar thing. I think it's probably closer. I think they probably take eight or nine for him now if they had to. If he really wanted to go, if he was pushing to go, you know, they might, they, they instead of, instead of having to Suddenly pay him 5 million bucks a year, I have a feeling Zenodo would go, you know what? I can go find you another guy and, and end up, you know, saving someone the loss and versus having to pay him 5 million a year in a. [00:30:24] Speaker B: So part of it too is remember that at Benfica he was the third guy. He wasn't the first guy. And there's something to be said for being the first guy, especially if you want to keep blame for Croatia, you know, you need to be the first guy. [00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it would depend on what club it is. I mean, is it. Would he play in the championship in England? I don't know. I. Would he go play on a lower tier Bundesliga team? I. Who knows? [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. [00:30:44] Speaker A: I don't know what his, his goals are. All right, so that game is on Saturday and we'll look forward to all of the, to that result when we talk about it next week. Also wanted to take a moment to appreciate the fact that the guys at Soccer wise, I was alerted to the fact that they enjoyed the sack assist stat that we brought up last week, which is the fact that FC Dallas slash Burn are the MLS league leaders in being the last team a manager plays mid season before he gets the shit can with 10, arguably 11. And the soccer wise guys, not arguably, [00:31:24] Speaker B: it's 11, it's 11. [00:31:25] Speaker A: It got. Got sent that information and had a good jolly laugh at that. I will throw in that since we talked about it, I had another realization that just makes this stat and its relationship to Dallas all the better. And this is important because for those of you who are relatively new to following Dallas, it's important for you to know historically the original Nemesis club for the Burn was the Wizard. Not the Wizards, the Wiz, Kansas City Wiz. And that's what they'll forever be in my heart. But if I didn't even pick this up until after we talked about it, remember in 2009, the Wizards or the Wiz fired Kurt Onolfo after losing to Dallas. Six nothing. The manager that replaced Onolfo was Peter Vermese who would then go on to lose his job in 2025 after last playing FC Dallas. I love that stat so very much. [00:32:34] Speaker B: That's good. [00:32:35] Speaker A: And now you know the rest of the story. [00:32:36] Speaker C: Well maybe they can. They can add a third to that at the end of this season if Casey lets their current coach go after another loss final match that be. [00:32:45] Speaker A: That would be so great. I'm trying to see in this list of teams they've got. They've got. All right. They're not. Charlotte's not going to fire their guy. Good Lord. There's no way Schmetzer is going to get fired at Seattle, is there? [00:33:00] Speaker B: No way. No chance. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Is Benny gonna lose it if. No. Benny no. Bruce no. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Columbus no. Yeah. Dennis, you may be right. Kansas City. The next to last game at Kansas [00:33:14] Speaker B: City Burn Go head coach [00:33:19] Speaker C: on soccer wise I think Goss actually said that this is one of the greatest stats of all time. I think actually called it. [00:33:26] Speaker A: It is. It's a fantastic stat and I really enjoyed the fact that they got a good giggle out of it. It's so funny because it came back. I mean it's a stat that I magically invented back in the early aughts the last time Buzz and I realized Dallas was leading in this stupid made up category. [00:33:42] Speaker B: We've been talking about this for a long time. [00:33:43] Speaker A: We've been talking about it forever and. And it only came back because of the. The LAFC sacking. So maybe Dallas will pull it off again. And another, it'll be their third season where they got a manager sack twice in the same season. That would be tremendous. [00:33:59] Speaker B: And if you're counting, I think FC Dallas has done that twice or may, maybe maybe three times themselves. Steve Morrow was fired after the LA Galaxy. Oh, embarrassing loss. Yeah, you can argue Colin Clark was fired for losing to Colorado in the first round of playoffs when he went wire to wire. First place by the way. Still the dumbest decision they've ever made. And then I think Lucci also got fired on an embarrassing result. I think I don't remember for sure. [00:34:25] Speaker A: What do you mean? Number of times Dallas has fired their manager mid season or after just a bad loss. [00:34:30] Speaker B: After a bad loss. Like the. The antithesis of this stat where they've done it themselves. They've been like one particular loss. Okay, you're fired. That was it. You know what I mean? [00:34:38] Speaker A: I don't know. We're not going to count Dallas firing in their own guy. [00:34:42] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. I just felt like it's a corollary of the same idea. [00:34:46] Speaker A: You know the funny fallout of this was that I was a bit surprised that people took this as some sort of messaging about how other teams or the league and I think Buzz, you even brought this up. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:34:57] Speaker A: View Dallas because Dallas really wasn't a bad team in the vast majority of these scenarios. Of these 10 firings, they weren't necessarily a really crappy team at that moment in time. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Well, there's a reason that I invented the slogan FC Dallas better than you think because people didn't believe that SE Dallas was any good. Yeah, they, they people have been trashing Esther Dallas forever and there was a period of time where they had only missed the playoffs like two or three times in their entire history and they were one of the top two or three teams in terms of lifetime points and wins and like all these things they just never won MLS Cup. But they're always were pretty good for like a long, long time. But people didn't perceive that. They've always perceived Dallas is to be like a nobody gives a. That's a crap team. Even when they were good. People thought that. [00:35:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I tend to think that's a. An insider thing amongst clubs and their perceptions of how the organization organization is run. You know you and I have heard that story many times. I mean obviously pre the Hunts they were difficult situation because they were league owned and they were really bootstrapping it post Lamar, you know, still bootstrapping it. Yeah, yeah. But in a different way. Interesting stuff. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:11] Speaker A: All right. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Third degree. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Should be, should be proud owners of the sacasist stat market. Yeah, we probably should. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Should make a T shirt. [00:36:21] Speaker A: All right, let's move on to Trinity who Dennis you know all about. You got things to say any. Where would you like to start on Trinity? [00:36:32] Speaker C: Well, they also did not play this week and we are halfway through the season and they fell down a spot because they did not play this week. Right. So they, they fell out of the playoff contention again. Fell down a fifth place in the table here behind Carolina, D.C. jacksonville and Lexington who is creeping back up the table again. They lost Lexington last time out and we talked spent a good chunk of time on that last week. But you know they're. They're midway through the season here and I think they're right exactly where we think we expected them to be given everything surrounding them, given the roster, given the roster construction, given the injuries, given the missing Pieces that still haven't made it back as far as being injured and we don't really have a lot of updates on. But I think Lee wins, done himself a decent job to get this team in a position to compete for this sprint season title given what they've got in front of them. But there's a handful of games left, they're halfway through the season, they've got seven left and they've got the classico mixed in there in the middle there. But good buzz. You're gonna say something. [00:37:39] Speaker B: I put together a roster dance. One of the features we have on score Texas for God, 20 years. I think I put one together for Trinity. They have less rules than MLS for sure. They have less weird roster stuff. But the thing you can really see when you look at it, Dennis, is that they have seven players that are in on loan of their group. That's, that's a lot. So I think, you know, regardless of where you are and what you're chasing this particular fast run season, if you're lean, win who's the player personnel director and the coach, you have to spend some time here in the back half of the season deciding because six of those seven play a lot. One of them is Heather Steinberg, who was here before he got here and is still hurt. So really it's six major ones that play a fair bit. You kind of need to decide like, am I going to try and get these young ladies, and I call them young because they're all under the age of 30, or am I going to go with some of these other players? And maybe if the ones you are trying to get or think you're going to get, you could keep playing. But maybe the ones that, you know, I can't get that one. Unless you feel like you're contractually obligated for some reason, you might want to start looking at what else you have. And some of those raises some questions, I think Dennis, about who's going to play where in the back. Because that's where all of a sudden you're getting some people healthy, you're getting new pieces. You're about to lose Brewer for a month. That mixes it up too. You know, Lee has a lot of questions about who's my speaking of not fixed elevens, I mean, good grief, that 11 is all over the place because of injuries and loans and, and young players coming in and out from call ups and all that kind of stuff. So he's even crazy in flux compared to FC Dallas. I don't know. I don't Know if I can give you more than like four players that are locks in that 11. But he also has the good problem of some good death. So it's, it's really weird and hard to put your finger on this team. Like, what's their. Other than the style play, which we know what that's going to be is, you know, who, who are the best choices, who should be playing where and what, what he's going to do. It's kind of a fascinating watch in that sense, opposite of SE House, where you know what you're going to get when SC House plays and this team plays. You don't know what you're going to get in the 11 or in the performances sometimes even because they can be hot. Cold. [00:39:45] Speaker C: Yeah. I think beyond just, you know, the upcoming weeks and the remaining season here, I think what we're, we're seeing, you know, when you talk about those loans and you talk about what this roster looks like, it's clear that this roster was brought together for the sprint season and get through this sprint season. New ownership, new leadership all around the club and, you know, new coaching staff and let's get their feet wet and let's see how they can make a run here. But, you know, to start thinking beyond that and start thinking, okay, well, we've got these six that are all likely going to return to their NWSL teams, right. In one way or another, whether they come back out on loan, because almost all these loans terminate at the end of the season as well. So do you. Do you extend the loan? Do you look to make a purchase deal? A lot of options on the table, but you know, with the calendar switch coming up next year as well, that's going to look a lot different for those NWSL clubs too, because do you want to send somebody on loan that early in the season when they might get some playing time early in the season? Coming up through, you know, you got different tournaments depending upon, you know, how far you finish up. They got the concrete W teams and everything else that goes on. Where do they need these bodies? So I think that is the biggest concern with all of these loans is what happens to their parent clubs. How much of their parent clubs even want to deal, Right. How much of these parent clubs even really want, really want them to stick around? Sure, they're getting great playing time, but if they're producing, you know, somebody like seven Castane who's scoring goals everywhere, do you not want to throw her in the lineup early in the season, which she can do at back at Orlando [00:41:06] Speaker B: Yeah, we go back to Sam Beza who was amazing for half a season here and then has been gone and never looked back. One thing that that roster dance does not have that the FC Dallas version have is contract links. And we've been asking Trinity to put them on the spot for a couple, three weeks now for that information. They keep telling us we're going to get it eventually, but that'll be a fascinating discussion, Dennis, because that will show us not just the loans which we all, we know all the loans are ending at the end of the year, but all these other players, a bunch of whom were signed for this season. Are they, were they just six month signings? Were they one year, two year, three years? How many of these players, these women are core to your future? How many of them are also short term signings that were like almost like an extended tryout? So there's a bunch of information here we're still lacking in order to talk sort of beyond this sprint season, you know, and in terms of the sprint season, I think, I think that they're in pretty good shape. If Lee can get his player selections a tiny bit more focused and sort of let people play in spots and develop like, like Boatman keeps, Beckman keeps moving all over the place. It feels like it probably would be good for her to sort of figure out where exactly she's going to play. [00:42:17] Speaker C: I mean the obvious answer is the 6, but he hasn't, he hasn't locked her down there. [00:42:22] Speaker B: I mean it could be, but it could be for Braun, it could be for Stainbrick if she comes back. It could be for Knox, it could be for Shepard who keeps playing being terrible. Cheeseman can do that. So like this is the thing, like his, he's way more versatile roster than FC Dallas is, which is crazy because that's the Dallas is. That's one of their core philosophies. [00:42:41] Speaker C: You know, my biggest concern though is, you know, what goes on after this sprint season. Are we talking season wraps up in November. Let's say they make a deep run in the playoffs. Deep run. There's only two playoff games, but let's say they make the playoffs, they get at least one. Maybe they make it to a championship. What happens in December, right? Is it time to go through rebuild number four in three seasons or three years? [00:43:04] Speaker B: Probably. [00:43:07] Speaker C: It's concern of what this team will look like on the field going into next season already. And you've got a fan base that hasn't really been able to endear themselves to too many players because they haven't been here long enough. Amber Wisner was here two seasons and the crowd fell in love with her. And then she retired as. As planned. But you know, what do you hang your hat on? Who do you build this club around going into the 27 season? [00:43:34] Speaker B: Not Lexi Missimo. I can tell you that she won't be here. Her current loan ends when her contract with Trinity ends, so. That's easy. [00:43:45] Speaker C: I don't think I knew that. I don't think I knew they ended at the same time. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Yep. [00:43:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So they have Brooklyn on Saturday, but when is the. The game against Chivas at the. [00:43:55] Speaker C: That'll be next weekend. That'll be next Saturday. That's actually up against FC Dallas in Houston. So it's Texas Darby and the Classico going on at the same time. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the 17th for the Chivas from Ali. Yeah. [00:44:10] Speaker A: So Brooklyn on Saturday. And that is at Brooklyn, by the way, on the tiny little field at [00:44:16] Speaker C: Brooklyn in the baseball. The minor league baseball stadium, which is a soccer legacy. That's where the Cosmos briefly played when they played in Brooklyn. There's actually still some Cosmo country signs up around the stadium if you've ever been down there. [00:44:30] Speaker B: Is that the worst home field in professional soccer? [00:44:34] Speaker C: Very, very much. Could be. [00:44:35] Speaker B: I think it's up there. It's gotta be. [00:44:37] Speaker C: No, no, no. [00:44:37] Speaker A: There's probably some really shitty League 1. [00:44:39] Speaker B: I mean, the lights, the lights play in a baseball stadium still. It's pretty shitty, but this one might be worse. [00:44:44] Speaker C: But hey, they've got, you know, you can take public transportation to the game at least. [00:44:50] Speaker B: The only good part about it is like the roller coaster in the background. [00:44:52] Speaker C: That's not the Cyclone. Up around the back behind the main fence 1. One of the best Italian seafood restaurants is right up the street. Randazzo's Clam Bar, if you're ever in the neighborhood. [00:45:03] Speaker B: I doubt I'll be in the Brooklyn neighborhood, but okay. [00:45:06] Speaker C: If you, if you ever find yourself at Coney island going to a soccer game, there's. [00:45:10] Speaker B: When I go to New York, that's not my pilgrimage. I have a pilgrimage, but that ain't it. [00:45:14] Speaker A: How many pictures are there of Dennis at Coney island as an 8 year old? [00:45:21] Speaker B: Some. [00:45:22] Speaker A: Several. I bet. [00:45:23] Speaker B: I bet Dennis, you want to. You want to hear my New York, my New York pilgrimage? Whenever time I am in New York, [00:45:28] Speaker C: oh, boy, go for it. [00:45:30] Speaker B: In Hoboken, New Jersey, there's this place called Vito's Deli. It's run by two guys that make their grandmother's homemade mozzarella recipe. Fresh motts every morning, and they come out with a bucket and they put this big, thick cut fresh mozzarella on these amazing subs. It's a one off Beatles Deli in Hoboken. And I get my sandwich and I walk like three blocks up the hill to the Stevens Institute of Technology. And I sit on the little picnic area overlooking Manhattan. I do that every time I'm in New York. [00:45:56] Speaker A: So, Dennis, because Buzz and I are from Texas, we don't say it right, why don't you tell Buzz the correct pronunciation of the cheese that he's describing? [00:46:05] Speaker C: The mozzarella. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't do that. I can only say Matt. [00:46:14] Speaker C: Just the fresh moots. That's what you gotta ask. Give me the fresh moots. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's one of those places where it was in the back of a grocery store. They started doing it. Now it's. That's all it is. They have fake places. [00:46:27] Speaker C: Those are the best places. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Dennis, Your last name's McGowan, for Christ's sake. You're so Italian. I can't figure. [00:46:34] Speaker C: Both of my grandmothers were Italian. [00:46:35] Speaker B: Okay, that'll do it. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Makes sense. Very good. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Oh, do you call. Do you call, like spaghetti sauce gravy? [00:46:42] Speaker C: No, no, no, no. That's not real. That's completely made up for television. [00:46:46] Speaker A: And then Trinity rolled out a new third kit. [00:46:49] Speaker C: Did we. [00:46:50] Speaker A: I. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Third shirt. [00:46:52] Speaker A: At least a shirt. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, they made a kid out of it, and it's so good. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Okay, can we debate this, Buzz? [00:47:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:01] Speaker C: No, you're wrong. [00:47:03] Speaker B: You're wrong. [00:47:06] Speaker A: I generally am a noted person who likes contrasting short sock shirt. You know, the triple play. I'm not sure I'm completely sold on this. The green and the cream shorts or whatever official color that is with the. With the burgundy socks. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's so good. [00:47:24] Speaker A: It is good. But I am not convinced that wouldn't look better if it was the same color shirt, shorts, and then the contrasting socks. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Because going back originally Chelsea style. Yeah, well. [00:47:38] Speaker A: Yeah, well. Or how about originally Dallas Trinity style, which was the thing that we've been crying about all year, is that they got away from wearing the contrasting socks. And I do think if they had stuck with that. And I know why they didn't, because Nike didn't have the colors for the shorts or the socks or whatever they needed. I just. In my head. And I haven't mocked that. I don't like it. I just think there's a better version of this. [00:48:01] Speaker B: I will give you credit for the. If they had Maintained their original, what we call the Chelsea style, you know, matching shirts and shorts and then a different coat. Soccer, they would have maintained that. I would 100 agree with you because then that would be in the tradition of how they do kits at that club. And I would. And then the, the value of that sustain and the value of that short run tradition would supersede what they are doing with this particular kid now. But in the. And just like what I have suggested with SC Dallas, if you're going to throw away your previous thing, which Trinity has done and which for a while SC Dallas had done, then this kind of, if you will, Mexico style, Manu style, there's three different colors is excellent. So like on its own, this kit is amazing top to bottom in that if they'd have maintained that original sock thing, then that would have been the way to go. You're right. And it would have worked with the green. Green maroon or green. Green, cream, gold, whatever that is. That would have worked with both. [00:49:01] Speaker A: What did it. I see. I need. I should have mocked all this up and looked at it. What would it have looked like if it been the green? Maroon. Maroon. [00:49:10] Speaker B: H. I don't like that as much. Then it's kind of just like sort of half and half. That's. It's okay. It's not as good as the, you know, the superseding thing would have been the limited tradition you had over a season and a half, slash two seasons. That would have had some value. That would have really made the thing, you know, any kind of breakup. Unless you have a really strong tradition history. Liverpool, solid red, top to bottom. You know, unless that's been your thing for a long, long time. I hate that solid color top to bottom. I just, I do too. I think it's muddy. [00:49:41] Speaker A: That's why I'm saying green. [00:49:42] Speaker B: Maroon. Maroon. Yeah, that would have been okay. Okay. It just would have been. That's as valid as the, you know, two tops the same and then the socks different. But that, that the socks different was the thing. That's why it would have been the best one. Dennis, are you, are you think I'm crazy or. [00:49:56] Speaker C: No, no, I, I think you're absolutely on track. I do think the one thing that kind of pulls this together. First of all, when the first shirt first came out, I was a little underwhelmed. I was a little plain. I do love a good collar, you know, I do love a good collared shirt. I know you buzz, you have a little bit of a different opinion there, but I, I, you know, I do enjoy a solid collared shirt, but it was a little plain. But when I saw the full kit together, the through line for me is really you've got the green top with gold letters and numbers, then you've got the gold shorts with, with the maroon burgundy numbers on it and then you've got the maroon socks. So you've kind of got this almost cascading look where you've got gold on green and then maroon on gold and then, you know, the maroon socks. I think it kind of, you know, flows really well together. And buzz when you, when you talk about, you know, this being sort of the Mexican style look, I think when you look at who the opponent is and what this game is supposed to be and what this friendly is supposed to be, I think that really lends into that vibe and lens to that. That style. There's. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Keep, keep in mind, Peter, this is a one off kit to play against Chivas. And so achievous is the red and white striped top and then blue shorts and socks. Navy socks. So like a dark shortened socks would not have worked as well for Trinity. Yeah, against that, you know. Okay. It's nice, but it's a fair, it's a fair question. And I, and I will never believe they are there. It's went fast. It's going fast. [00:51:17] Speaker A: And did it have. Does the shirt have a pattern of any sort or is it just a solid green? [00:51:22] Speaker B: I think it's just all green. [00:51:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it's just a, it's mostly a solid green Nike drive. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Keep in mind this kid was already set by the time the athletico guys took over. This is not one of their creations. This is a kid they've inherited. You know, I think it's pretty good. I, you know, I'm never not gonna be annoyed if the sock thing doesn't come back. Just like I'm never not annoyed if else doesn't have hoops. You know, I mean there's, there's some basic things to the kit design that they should have kept up with and, and had no. And people have dropped it and, or not understood or whatever. And then it's on the, the thing about the, the plane, the super plane kit, particularly on the Trinity one is those gold numbers are pretty dark and muted, so like they really wash into the maroon. And so when you're going full maroon head to toe with darkish numbers, there's no pop at all. It's all just a muddy, dark blob. That's my biggest complaints. I mean, I'm with you. Like sometimes a good Nike is the kings of this. A very good, simple classic top, a clean top. Nike. That's Nike's hallmark. Those can be really good. You know, I can buy a good executed, solid, clean top. That's just. I don't think trinities have been good well executed. I think they're muddy because of the good dark gold numbers. [00:52:37] Speaker C: I am excited that they've used this live oak green and they. They use that blue for the training tops that. That's in the archive so far. So I think the only color we haven't seen from their colorway pattern has been that orange is the only one that hasn't been used anywhere yet. But it's nice to see them digging into that and. And pulling from that so far, you know, Twice this season. [00:52:54] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:52:55] Speaker A: All right, Buzz, before we go, the US has one more game. They get to play shitty Jesse Marsh's Canada Boy, what a heel turn that dude has taken in the last year. [00:53:06] Speaker B: I love Jesse Marsh, man. [00:53:09] Speaker A: I know. Everybody hates him show he has turned into. [00:53:14] Speaker B: It's all a bit dude. [00:53:15] Speaker A: I know, I know. And that's probably why I don't. I think that's why I get more annoyed by it than ever because I. It makes me think that all the times leading up to his divorce from U.S. soccer because he didn't get the job and the fact that I really liked him at that point was I got suckered into the Jesse Marsh bit. Now that I recognize it's all a bit. [00:53:38] Speaker B: Well, I think he's particularly muffled ruffled about the whole thing is because part of the things that came out was. Was allegedly players when he was close to getting the US Job. That those stories that went around where some of the players that are at the top of the roster at the time called U S Soccer and said don't you dare hire that guy. And it's because they don't like they didn't want to run because Marsh plays a hot. The Red Bull system. Right. They plays that super high aggressive mega press. You got to work your tail off. [00:54:05] Speaker A: So wait. And so they ended up Pochettino instead. Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker B: So that was the story that like, you know that. That the story was that people like Wes and Pulisic and. And whoever else were like, no, we don't want to work that hard. [00:54:19] Speaker A: You can't hire them too bad guys. You ended up getting a guy that's even more of a hard ass. [00:54:23] Speaker B: Yeah, well, there you go. And look what he's doing. Who he's using well. [00:54:29] Speaker A: So the reason why I bring all that up is obviously on the heels of beating Mexico 3 nothing in a really odd game. Unto itself is the glorious use of all the youth, the Cavan Sullivan's, the Julian Halls, the all of the Ellis Albert, all these guys, young guys is great. But coming off a World cup where FC Dallas was so predominantly featured in the roster for the US in the World cup, here we are in this new next generation and they're. There is no Dallas to really talk about. I mean, Pepe obviously is going to eventually show back up. Weston will be there. I think to some degree. Chris is in there. Yeah, I should. I forgot about Chris. Sorry. So Dallas is in there and Chris. But you know, I think what you're [00:55:17] Speaker C: saying though is the future just isn't there. [00:55:18] Speaker A: Well, yeah, but once you get past those guys that were part of the World cup team, there just is no Dallas in there. And so that's the. That. That to me is buzz. I guess the question is, is this just a weird gap in the Dallas academy thing or is this a larger preview of. Of how much the rest of MLS academies have caught up and maybe even surpassed Dallas? [00:55:42] Speaker B: Well, it might. We don't know the answer to that yet. It could be a gap. It could be that Dallas just isn't as good at this anymore and that everyone else caught up. It could also be that 99 to 2003 was just a golden generation of Paxton, Jesus, Tanner, Pepe. [00:55:58] Speaker A: You know, what do you think it is, though? [00:56:00] Speaker B: Well, I think it's multifaceted. I think there's about 10 different reasons and they all contribute. Number one, everybody else got better at this. Everyone else saw that you could do things like Dallas has done and there's a bunch of academies that have followed suit. So like some of the recruits they would get, you know, from places like your Alabama or your Arizona or your Arkansas or whatever, are now going to other places. They still come to Dallas. They. Dallas still recruits really well, but there are other people that are doing this now. So they don't get the very, very best. They don't get Tanner anymore necessarily, but maybe they do and we just don't know yet. The second thing that happened there really was a little bit of a gap in sort of talent equation. Like after the 2003 class, which is bonkers. That's Justin, Che, Jon, the Gomez, Ricardo, Pepe, Dante, Sealy, Colin smith. That's all 2003. That's a bonkers class from one year. And even you can include Slade Star who's looking like he might be developing too. 2004 was jack squat except for Antonio Carrera. Now Antonio is a keeper. He came through the US system. He was probably second choice all the way. Come up through the US youth system. Now at TIS maybe he's only 23 or 24 or whatever. So plenty of time for Antonio to come good. Maybe after that it's Nolan2005 Nolan Norris who may yet still become an Austin player. But I'm not super optimistic. But really that's it. Like that group's not panning out. 2006 Julian Eyestone, really good chance there. Right. Matthew Corcoran. 2006 Kiro Figueroa who now is playing for Honduras Liverpool, we talked about him last week also that group but left the trend here you're sensing is key [00:57:37] Speaker A: role have the option to to switch the United States. Does he have eligibility for the U.S. [00:57:42] Speaker B: i think he actually switched to Honduras from the U.S. he did his one time switch to play for Honduras I think. [00:57:49] Speaker C: Okay, so I think he scored the winner for Honduras this week. [00:57:52] Speaker B: He did, he did, yeah. So that was cool. We talked about the whole thing where he could end up playing Julian Ey, right. So then basically that's. That's facet number two. One was there was a little bit of a gap. Facet number two is Dallas has failed to hold on to the very best people since then. Julian Eyone, Matthew Corcoran. You could include Figaroa though he left after like U13. That was a long long time ago. That's part of the struggle. You could even look at Santiago Morales. He was in the FC House Academy before his dad went to Inter Miami and he went with him. So there's some failure there. On top of that the atrophy in the academy coaches, you know Lucci became the SE Dallas coach. Oscar became the FC Dallas coach. When he Oscar left he took the Bazan brothers with him. One of whom had been an academy coach. The current San Diego coach Mikey Vera was an academy coach. These are guys that were all in the academy. Alex Aldez was an academy coach and now is the U16 or U17 National Coach Sports depending on the year. These are guys that all excelled at player development and passing guys through the system. These guys all been hired away. The guys that are left are the guys who are no offense to any of them other than maybe chewy. They're guys that are more American sort of college player development kind of guys. They lack some of the high end coaching development talent that they used to have. That's part of it. You know, maybe it's part of the the Dallas local scene isn't quite what it used to be. Maybe there's other players, other places that are developing. There's a. You could look at something as small as the current person that scouts the United for the United States national team in this area is Arturo Alvarez, who played for FC Dallas. He also played for Houston Dynamo and he lives in Houston. So since he became the head scout in this area, Houston Dynamo is getting way more cops than they ever got before. Houston has always been a horrible player development area compared to the North Texas area. That is the amount of calls they're getting has radically altered relative to the North Texas area since Arturo took over scouting this area. Now does that mean the talent change or does he biased or who the hell knows. I don't know. I'm not privy to those conversations by any means. But all these millions of not millions, all these 10 or so different factors add up. I think you can even look at the fact that Chris Hayden has been was VP of youth when Lucci or Oscar was an academy director. When Lucci left, they just gave Hayden academy director's job too. So he's doing two jobs that should be a full time employee. I think that means, means things slip through the cracks. I thought I like Chris Hayden, I think he's good. But he's doing two jobs that should be in instead of should be one person each. That could be a factor. And then the last one I think is the thing I was working on when we were trying to get ready for this podcast is North Texas SC has stopped being a pathway. I'm gonna, I'm writing an article about it so I don't want to spoil it all, but Eric Quill was the head coach of North Texas SC from 2019 through 2021. That's the era when Pepe, etc. Etc. Etc. Tanner, Che, whoever you want to talk about came through the North Texas pipeline before they signed for FC Dallas. They came through and they developed at North Texas SC since he left at the end of 2021 for 22 on, which is January 22nd when they sold Pepe. Since then, can you name a player that's come through North Texas SC and actually helped FC Dallas? No, Nolan technically played from as an academy player played in that window and Michael Collodi also played in that window out of college like a year and a half ago. That's it. Those two guys since 2022 started. So you know, whoever's Coaching there, the focus on winning there, maybe, like it's a problem. It's all systemic. It's all part of it. Nico Stavez clogged the pipeline. He stopped breaking through youth stop. He wanted to play old dudes. He didn't give a about playing kids. [01:01:59] Speaker A: Right? [01:02:00] Speaker B: Development stopped, progression stopped. [01:02:03] Speaker A: So with the Benji Flowers news, obviously that's a young guy that you've hyped quite a bit. And obviously signing a deal with Chelsea indicates that you're correct about that. I also don't feel like that you've spent as much time in the last several years kind of hyping all the talent and the youth levels as you used to. Is there a reason for people listening to think that maybe in the cycle after this or where, you know, when we get to 34 or 38 World cup, that Dallas will start to show itself again? [01:02:34] Speaker B: I'm currently in this phase of counting, like who you could sort of count as this part of the process, but I'm in the neighborhood of something like 27 players that assigned for North Texas SC since Quill left, and two of them, as I just mentioned, have come through. So probably over half of those guys are still waiting. FC Dallas has like 10 homegrowns right now. One of the reasons I haven't talked as much about those guys, because you're not seeing them play for North Texas, you're not seeing these young hot shots get minutes. We talked a whole bunch about Benji because he, he showed up at North Texas and we're like, oh yeah, of course, I've been talking about him for years. But he showed up in North Texas, we're like, watch out, he's going to get signed. You remember Steel Cook a couple years ago, that discussion about he was 14 years old, he played for North Texas, all that kind of stuff. Like, here's a hot name. We had some couple viral videos that went out. Well, he got tired of waiting. He left, he went to FC Cincinnati. That was a super talented kid coming through. There are some other kids that I think are worthy of this kinds of discussion. If you want to go Back to the 26 class. Alejandro. [01:03:42] Speaker A: No, you don't need to give specific names. I'm just saying too much. This is a general question, you know, as we move forward into, you know, 20, 30, 34, 38, you know, is there just generally, do you feel like it will start to repair itself or is this the. Just the new. The new normal? [01:03:59] Speaker B: I think it's, in some ways it's the new normal and that it's look how many other Academies are producing U.S. national teams. That's what we're talking about, level players. Yeah, but if you're talking about helping FC Dallas, I think you can look at Caleb Swan being right at the verge of helping FC Dallas. You know, Diego Garcia was also in that category. But then those guys get into the other the youth national teams or if they get a camp or whatever. There are guys that are even better that are like your Sullivans or your Alberta's or whatever guys that are getting chances in Europe. You can look at Isaiah Kukush who came out of the U17 national team was a guy we would expect it to progress through North Texas. Well then he blew out his ACL and even when he before he did that John Gall wouldn't pick him. Even though he's a guy coming out of the U.S. u17 national team that you think is going to be one of these hot guys, you're going to progress through your club and that hasn't happened. You know, it's all part of it. Flowers will be the interesting one because he's the one where everyone is losing their mind about how good he is. You know, he's a Pepe level talent. But we'll see looking at like a [01:05:01] Speaker C: kid like Flowers, how much is the eligibility rules for dual nationals and being able to make the switch and how much do you think that has an effect on pipeline to the national team specifically? [01:05:11] Speaker B: Well, Dallas has a lot of guys that are dual nationals. SC Dallas does because there's a whole bunch of kids that have Latino representation of all kinds of stuff that play for FC Dallas, whether it be Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, you know, we just [01:05:27] Speaker C: talked Central American, Caribbean, lots and lots of them. [01:05:30] Speaker B: Even a Brazilian kid like Sam Ceta, who's I'm super excited about is Brazilian American. American. You know, Contreras is a Brazilian American who we just sold just loan to Tigris. Right. So like there are some guys that are in that neck of the woods. There's a couple of dudes that play for Mexico right now that I'm quite interested in. But then there's sometimes there's not. Sometimes there's guys that play for Mexico or United States that just never develop. Like being in the national team at U15, U16, U17 is not very indicative of like future professional success. US it's nice, it's good. But like kids that are the best at that level aren't necessarily the best when they're 22, 23, 24. [01:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And the reason Why I brought all this up was that in light of watching how these games have played out over the last couple of weekends with the US with all this youth is, you know, everybody's excitement about this. And, and for all of the dogging and criticism and whining and complaining and freaking out about the state of youth soccer in the United States States, what we're really witnessing, if we're all being honest, is the first true generation of American players that have grown up in the United States with the top flight league, with the Associated Academies and some very early version of a path to pro that we've never had at this scale before. And, and if we're starting to see this level of talent with all the kind of idiosyncrasies and oddities and broken parts of the system now, imagine how good the country will be at cranking out talent once those things start to get sorted out. We're so early in this process as a country. I think everybody tends to forget that. [01:07:06] Speaker B: And I think the thing that people miss the most is that other than Sullivan, who is Philly, the Philly kid, right, he, he's lined up to go to Man City. And Flowers is now lined up, plays for FC Dallas, paid for IC House is lined up to go to Chelsea. But other than those rare examples, the Europeans have realized that there's a massive, massive talent base here in the United States now. So like, they come over now and scout kids and take them to Europe much, much earlier than they ever did before. They don't always wait till they're 18 and to sign them like Julian Eyestone. Sometimes they come find them and they bring their whole family over or whatever. And so how many of those kids that we just saw play, how many of them came from MLS team teams? You know, Julian hall was at New York, right? But that's again Red Bull system, right? Kevin's Kevin Sullivan. You know, a lot of those guys are now being found and discovered by European clubs and come through Dortmund. Yeah, I mean, Alberta said Dortmund, it's, [01:08:05] Speaker A: it's an exciting time. And I mean, there's a reason to be excited post World cup, but I think everybody was kind of bummed out about how it ended for the US to feel excited about a lot of this talent because, I mean, beating Chile, Peru and Mexico in that weird game is one thing, even if they go 40 in this, but it is fun to see those kids excel and, and not wince or. [01:08:25] Speaker B: You know, the last time I remember something like this was when basically Landon Donovan and DeMarcus Beasley came out of the U17s and went right to the national team. Basically that was kind of like this. [01:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:36] Speaker B: You know, and that was less. That was a lot less than now this now the group now is a chunk of them and like, you know, the people that we saw in the World cup, like half those dudes ain't going to be in the next world. [01:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah. But what I would also warn it, you know, we also had the Eddie Johnson's of the world. Yeah, right. And we've even had the. The interesting story of Giovanni Reyna who was like a wonder kid that where everybody was excited about. And then we went through a cycle with him where he was everybody's least like player and a big problem and he blew it. You know, he was a waste of talent. And now here he is back starting multiple games consecutively for the team and playing very well and looking like. And beginning to show the seeds of the player that everybody thought he could be. So it's only 23 and he's only, I think actually 24, which seems ridiculous. So you know, there's all these kind of very. I mean it's not a linear path there and they're never the same for any player. [01:09:28] Speaker B: So he was born in Sunderland. How crazy is that? [01:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I know it is. [01:09:32] Speaker B: You can play for England. [01:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, very good. Well, Dennis, thank you so very much. Dude, it's good to see you again. [01:09:38] Speaker C: Likewise. Been a fun one. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Yes. And Buzz. Thank you sir. [01:09:42] Speaker B: Speaking of, thank you guys for being here. But speaking of this kind of thing, a young estate house player named Miguel Coriano just got called up by the Puerto Rico. Just an example for the UNCAF tournament this month. So like again, Pipeline is there just maybe not the same as it was. [01:09:56] Speaker A: Oh, hey, before we go, we just need to throw out good wishes and goodwill and our very best to Luke Munson, former Dallas Academy kid playing at full furman who had his bro leg broken when they were playing Duke. It was a double fracture. The horrifying part of this story is, is that after surgery he had to have, I believe a second procedure and ultimately ended up with them having to amputate the lower portion of his leg. And that's a devastating thing for a kid who probably thought, you know, soccer was going to be his career, at least for the early part of his adulthood. So our. Our best wishes to him and his family in. In his recovery from that. [01:10:40] Speaker B: I'm not one to say this kind of term lightly. This really is a good kid. He's a great kid. He's mentally tough. He's got a wonderful family. So I, I'm sure in life he's going to be fine, but this is going to be very difficult for him and obviously we would send him our very best. [01:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:56] Speaker A: Career ending injury is one thing. Career ending injury that includes losing a limb is a whole other level of awful that is hard to calculate or get your, your brain wrapped around. So once again, go on, Luke. Sorry, dude. [01:11:12] Speaker C: That's tough. [01:11:12] Speaker A: Very tough. [01:11:13] Speaker B: Third Degree the podcast is brought to you by Patreons like you. If you've enjoyed this podcast, enjoyed our content coverage of SC Dallas Athletico, Dallas, North Texas, SC Dallas Trinity. Why not join us with a little support on the Patreon? Come in at any level you like. If you could even jump up to the discord level and get in on the great conversation that happens there every day. Thanks again for your support. [01:11:37] Speaker A: All right, Buzz. Dennis. Thank you much, guys, and thank you. DFW Soccer Curious. We will speak to you next week on another episode of 3rd Degree, the podcast 3rd Degree the 3rd Degree Net podcast 3rd Degree the 3rd degree 3rd Degree the 3rd Degree net podcast. [01:12:11] Speaker B: Sam.