3rd Degree the Podcast #348

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Third Degree. [00:00:11] Speaker C: The Third degree. [00:00:12] Speaker A: NEP Podcast. Third degree the third degree Nap podcast. Third degree the third degree Nap podcast. Third degree the Third degree. Well, hello there, DFW soccer Curious. Welcome to another episode of Third Degree, the podcast Looking Fit is a fiddle. It is your captain of the Husky Hive Football Club, Dan Crook. Howdy, Dan. [00:00:42] Speaker C: Hello. Should take pride in that dude. Our season starts tomorrow after the the weather cancelled last week's. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Did you get some acquisitions to improve the team from last year? [00:00:54] Speaker C: Yeah, have no idea who they are, but yeah, actually I played with one that guys who's pretty solid, so hoping for some. Hoping for some trophies this time around. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Andy and I discussed trying to get our. The guy that's been producing the kick around for a bit to go out ea. He's a big dude. That's fine. [00:01:15] Speaker C: That's what I was there for. [00:01:16] Speaker A: No, I mean like he's, he's. He's more like NFL linebacker size than soccer size, if that makes sense. [00:01:23] Speaker C: All right. [00:01:23] Speaker A: All right, well, we'll see if we. [00:01:25] Speaker C: Can'T get stick him and go. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Okay, well that. Maybe he'd be pretty good at that. That. Yes, very good. Well, we look forward to weekly updates on the Husky Hive season progress. [00:01:38] Speaker C: Does that mean we get Borach's updates too? [00:01:41] Speaker A: Nobody wants to hear about Borach's updates. But yeah, I mean, you're wrong. Okay, well, yeah, we can do that. We can. We. We. We'll discuss that and see how Buzz feels about all of this self indulgence as we move forward. And there he is. Your hero, my hero, everybody's hero. Editor, founder of thirddegree.net we're looking up his nose from a remote location somewhere not his normal place. Yeah, it is the amazing Buzz carrot. Coming, Buzz. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Well, speaking of being self indulgent, there's an announcement to be made here at the beginning of this podcast. I think it's the appropriate time to do this. Yeah. So we've talked on the podcast once or twice in passing about how my. The fact that my in laws live up in Spokane, Washington. And the time has come in life when my wife and I have decided that it's time to move to be near them as they get older. So I am moving to Spokane, Washington. In fact, I'm already there because I was this last week, I was bringing all my stuff up here. I will be back in Dallas next week, but after that I'll be doing third degree from Washington. So it's not the first time that I've done this without living in Dallas. And there's lots of great help, like Peter and Dan and many people that now help us on third degree. Unlike the last time, I was doing it by myself from somewhere else. So slight change from location for me, but I think we do a great job across the board anyway, so nothing should change from the viewers then. But I like to be publicly clear about what's happening and not. Not holding back anything from anybody to seem like we're trying to game the system or something. [00:03:18] Speaker A: I have a lot of emotions about this buzzard. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you and I have known each other a really long time. [00:03:25] Speaker B: That's true. So almost 30 years. [00:03:29] Speaker A: Yes. And I think it. I mean, I'm happy for you. I'm happy that you and Amy get to live in a place near her family and stuff, but it also sucks that you're not going to be in Dallas anymore. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Well, I'll be back every once in a while. We can hang out, obviously, and go see a soccer game or something here and there. So. But, yeah, sometimes things come along in life and in time to change for family, you know, so that's what's up. And we'll keep doing what we do. [00:03:53] Speaker A: I can't quite figure out if you've done this at the appropriate time just before the World cup or not. Like, is that bad luck or, wow, you're lucky you're getting out of here. Just. [00:04:02] Speaker C: It means he got tickets to the games in Seattle. [00:04:05] Speaker B: I'm hoping that's what that means. Yeah, I. I've put in for some. We'll see. [00:04:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Hey, wait a second. Wait a whole fucking second. [00:04:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:13] Speaker A: This doesn't mean you're suddenly now going to become a Sounders and Spokane fan, is it? [00:04:20] Speaker B: Well, not Sounder, certainly. I mean, Spokane. I might go to Spokane games, but. [00:04:24] Speaker A: It'S hard to change it to be a Zephyr. Are you? [00:04:28] Speaker B: No. Well, I'm not a woman, so I'm not a Zephyr, you know, or around soccer so much and around for pro game so much that, like, my only real, sort of like, pure fandom is Newcastle. You know, I have an affinity for all the Dallas teams because I'm from Dallas and we've been covering them for a long time, and I certainly enjoy going to soccer games. Seattle's, you know, we like going to Houston to go to games, but, you know, the local team here, Spokane, I'm sure I'll go watch both Velocity and Zephyr play, you know, from time to time. So why wouldn't they go watch live soccer? Be Nice. [00:05:01] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, there was a period of time when you weren't living here, you were doing your TV project in. Was it New Orleans? [00:05:07] Speaker B: Was in Oklahoma City and then New Orleans. Orleans both. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and, and the Internet wasn't as robust with streaming and video chat and online recording and stuff and it. And we got through third degree together through that time. Way more connected in 2026 than you would have been back then. So I think everything will be just hunky dory. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. The last time I did this was when we were with ESPN Dallas and Dallas Morning News, and neither one of them complained about the level of our coverage. You know, and since then, we've added a lot of people and added a lot more production and coverage with various people helping us out. So I feel even more confident we'll be able to do it fine. And every episodal game is streamed. Lots of Academy games are streamed. All the North Texas games are streamed, all the Velocity games are streamed. Like, I can see every game. So, like nothing's going to change the same. [00:05:56] Speaker A: All right, well, very good. There is the big news. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:00] Speaker A: Let's move on to the world of DFW soccer. We've got lots to discuss today. Trinity was back at it. There was obviously a big announcement last week pertaining to usl, which they now are officially calling Premiere. We. We predicted it here, kids. And so there. I have some thoughts about that, and I'm sure the other guys do too, that we can get into during this episode. But we'll first get off into the FC Dallas News, which is pretty funny because last week we were lamenting the lack of stuff to talk about. And lo and behold, just mere hours later, the sale of Martin Paws to Ajax popped up out of nowhere and adios. Great one. I'm gonna miss that guy because I don't know if there's ever been a Dallas inbound foreign player come and move here and relocate here and dive into the Dallas culture quite like Mr. Paws did. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Oh, he was all in, wasn't he? Like, you know, going to games, Mavericks and Stars and living downtown at the one of those cool condos. And he definitely embraced the Texas ness of the. The whole thing and was a great player too. Like, you know, absolute phenomenal shot stopper, one of the best keepers we've had. And actually leaves tied with Matt Jordan for most games for FC Dallas, which is crazy. He didn't feel like he was here that long, but it just shows you. [00:07:22] Speaker A: How that is crazy. [00:07:23] Speaker B: Yeah, so it just shows you how short the run of a top keeper is, you know, but on the same time, Dan, like, he, you know, once you lose your job, even if it was partially because of an injury to another guy, you become perhaps somewhat expendable. And obviously his life and family or. And girlfriend or whatever, she. Official status is over in Europe. And he had some. A lot of value that is too much value to be sitting behind a young homegrown. So you got to maximize that value and get a return on it. And we know that as well as anybody, Dan. And, and so it's, It's. It's good business, really, in a way, even though we're bummed to see him go. [00:07:57] Speaker C: Yes. I mean, obviously it's not the biggest fee, but, you know, everything's kind of indicating like $1.5 million. They paid roughly a million for him. So you, you make a little. A little bit. It sounded like from some of his interviews at IAX that there were a couple of personal things taking him back to Europe. The girlfriend was obviously based in Europe, which, you know, a couple of years, that's. That's difficult to. To have that. So, yeah, if. If the biggest club in your nation comes calling, that's. That's a hard thing to resist. Yeah. [00:08:35] Speaker A: Is it. Would it. Am I being too cynical and reading into this as a kind of somewhat historically consistent, do the player a favor move by the Hunts here, You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I just. For the. I was surprised at the amount. I thought pause would pull a larger amount than a million bucks or a million and a half. [00:09:01] Speaker B: His contract ran through this season. He had two options. He had 27, 28. They actually have lots of time on him, so I think it's more likely that, you know, if he's going to be sitting here, second team that's going to devalue his contract and his career. So you might as well do it before the word is around and he's like, he's not playing, you know, and he loses value that way. [00:09:19] Speaker A: Well, I, I'm sure there's a little bit of all of it tied behind the, the story of how he ended up leaving. But he was great while he was here. He was a great acquisition for a very fair fee. I think they maximize the value out of him at the time, so that's pretty great. So we'll miss him very much. And he put up the. The. This was the best goodbye video I've seen out of the club in some time. I thought it was really, really well put together. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:46] Speaker A: And if you're at all sentiment kind of feelers. It might not me put a little sand in your eye. So there you go. It'll be interesting to see how he does at AX if he gets off the bench, if he just ends up being. If he gets a real shot at playing regularly for them. But I mean, obviously with his supermodel girlfriend living over there and spending a lot of time in France, he's much closer. They've been in a relationship for quite some time and I. Part of me begins to wonder if we won't see those two tie the knot sometime sooner than. Than later. So we'll see what happens. All right. So on the heels of that, the team needed a new second keeper. And that news came down today as they made a trade with Montreal for a young man named Jonathan Sooy. [00:10:35] Speaker B: I prefer to say serious because then you can say it's a very serious trade or something like that. Sorry, I. I honestly don't know a lot about this keeper. You know, he's been playing for a team that's not particularly good. The one nice thing about the one nice thing. There's a couple nice things about this deal. Number one is that he's a homegrown for Canadian, which means that he's not an international for anybody at MLS because he was signed as a homegrown by Montreal. So that's good. No international spot. And then the deal I think is actually pretty good. Like the. The initial 75k in GAM this year and next year, and then it has some conditional stuff. So like it's a really cheap backup. Unless he turns out to be really great and just becomes a starter, then you got to pay a little more money, which is perfectly reasonable. So it's a very value deal since, you know, we would expect probably that Clodi's going to be the starter. But you know, if he becomes a starter and then earns that extra cost, then he'll be worth it. So either way, great value deal. I think. Dan, I don't know how you feel about this one. I think it's pretty good. [00:11:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Good upfront cost. 75, 26 gam. 75, 27 gam. I think his salary was like around the 250 mark last year. 200, 000 in conditional gamut performance metrics are met. Whatever. Who cares? Doesn't occupy an international spot as a. As a Canadian homegrown. I mean that's. If he comes in and sits as backup. Great. He's. He's done the job. [00:12:07] Speaker A: All right. So this is part of the reason why I, I, I asked the question about were the Hunts doing Pause a favor to let him go? Because he might be a perfectly fine backup. But I, I'm all on the Collode train, but I also am interested in seeing how the Collode experience goes over the course of a full season and, and being a young guy and not a super tall, you know, MLS typical size guy, having pause is the second option. Always felt a lot safer to me. I, this is such an unknown with this guy, and he doesn't have a tremendous track record. That's where I started to begin to build this idea that maybe Pause came to them and said, look, if I'm not your lock starter, I would really love to go home and maybe my agent can find an opportunity for me somewhere. And the agency did in the IAX deal. And that's when, when this deal came about with Sorori, that's where it started to really connect with me. And I'm wondering if you guys think there's anything too. [00:13:07] Speaker B: No, I, I 100 think there is. You know, Paz's significant other was at the IAX sighting and video and pictures. Not to read too much into this, she looks pretty happy. I mean, I don't blame her. You know, her, her significant other has been on the other side of the planet for three years or whatever. So to get him back, you know, where she lives and they can, you know, build a life together, as one presumes they would want to do, you have to think that that's true. And you also have to think that Paz wants to keep playing for Indonesia, and this will be a lot closer for that, for that to happen. And it'll also be a place that'll, you know, he'll be seen by more people as, and it'll be perceived as more prestigious. Playing for Ajax, I mean, that's not nothing. So, like, in a lot of ways, he probably perceives this as a step forward. And now Dallas, by doing this, they can once again show, hey, look, we're a club that can get you places. You know, went from Utrecht to us to Ajax. You know, like, that's where we are in the world. It's our place. So I'm sure it's all part of the why it works for Dallas to do it the way they are right now. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Well, considering last year they had a little hot flash with the MLS pool keeper who played out of his mind, maybe this guy will come good too, in a time of need. And we shouldn't judge him by his Montreal impact time. Because as you said, Buzz, that's a nest show up there. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Not a very good team. So hard to really judge how many goals he was letting in. Unless he's part of the problem, obviously. But you know, Dallas is willing to roll the dice on him. So, you know. [00:14:37] Speaker A: All right, so the guys have been over in Portugal doing Portuguese things and since we last talked, they did play a game against Salt Lake. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Yep. [00:14:46] Speaker A: And they ended up winning that game three to one. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Well, three to one after three halves, after two halves, after 90 minutes it was only two nothing. So one of those deals where they played three halves, which is weird, but you know how that goes. [00:14:59] Speaker A: We would call those periods Buzz periods. [00:15:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Like hockey. Well, they played three 40 minute sessions, so soccer halves anyway, not, you know, the game was at 5 in the morning and I don't believe it was available on stream. So we don't have a ton to take away from. Except, you know, looking at the lineups, goal scorers. Peter Musa scored with an assist from Delgado Anderson Julio with an assist, I believe by Diego Garcia and then Ricky Lewis. Scotty going at the end appears to be unassisted, but Collode played both halves basically, you know, which shows you that at that point they were out of keepers completely and didn't trust the other kid that's there. [00:15:36] Speaker A: And you mean all halves? [00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, all three, apparently. Yeah. Everybody played about, about 70, 75 minutes mostly. And then they rotated a lot of people in at the 70th minute mark. But you know, if you want to look at your starting 11 as we get closer to the beginning of the season, I think it starts to be telling, right, that we can take a little away from that. And the new wing back from on. Johansson started at apparently left wing back, continuing this flipped wing back, inverted wing back thing with Bernie at right wing back. And then much to my chagrin, Ibiaga, Origiday and more are your three starting center backs. Now, depending on which way you read the lineup, you could read that as Bernie left, Johansson right and then. But it appears that if, if you're reading it the way we've been reading it all spring, Shaq Moore is getting the starts at right center back and Ibbie is at left center back. So Ibi starting, you know, over Nolan Norris still at this point, midfield is Capis Kaik and. And at the base of the triangle, the Diego, the Delgado, excuse me, your 10. And then Ferrington Moose up top. So that's very much like what any of us would have penciled in as a starting 11 minus that we might have wanted Nolan Norris minus maybe we might have thought Kaiko over not would sit in favor of Romero perhaps, but otherwise pretty on points. And then you got the rotation you would have expected. Nolan Alvaro and Abubakar in the back. Lewis came in, Deetson came in apparently also at wing back again, which is interesting I suppose. Diego Garcia, Ramiro Swan still playing with no packs of palm call Simmons and Julio up top. So you know, pretty we're getting a predefined first team second team group going here. We did see, you know, Turcato come in late. We did see Sarver come in a little bit later. So nothing crazy, but maybe not quite the 11 we were kind of hoping for to start the season. At least I was not. I was hoping to see Nolan in there for sure. But. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Well, let's talk about that a little bit because in the in the day after the game took place and I saw especially in your discord buzz, I saw a lot of noise about the fact that Nolan didn't start and Ibiaga and I started thinking about this for a bit and you're actually the best resource to get into this with because you know way more about Nolan Norris than I do. But it began to, you know, I was thinking about a start of a 26 season where you're if you're going to play with a back three, the idea that two of your three center backs are not natural center backs seems to be a pretty risky move. I know Nolan is good in defense, but he's my impression is he's not a natural center back and this is a bit of a conversion for him. Maybe not as great as it is going to be for Shaq, but he's also just a kid. So I'm just wondering if that's the thing that will push Ibiaga to start is because he's a known entity in that position. [00:18:44] Speaker B: It's certainly a case that for Coach Quill. He has not seen Nolan Norris play a lot of left center back. We've mostly seen that with the national team more than we have with FC Dallas, because FC Dallas hasn't played a ton of that. And he did really well though right at that one start of the end of last season. You know, and 12 being quill being a guy who wants to have trust and faith in people, it's not surprising that he's gone with the veteran Ibiaga. For me, the issue becomes I don't think Ibiaga is good enough that you can win much with him, just playoffs or MLS cup or get high in the ceilings. Now today I'm sure you can make a case that Itiaga is a safer, more solid pick. But I don't want to play for today. I want to play for nine months from now or two years from now, whatever it is. This is just like what happened with Nikosi Tafari when they had him and they just sort of nickel and dimed him to death. And it's like, dude, at some point you got to invest in these young players and just play them, you know, no one's been on the first team for a couple of years now. It's not like he's fresh out of the academy anymore. He's been playing at the national team at this position from time to time as much as he does at left back. You know, he's a captain of that national team all the time. So like at some point you got to play the guy. You know, if they never are going to play him, why do they keep re signing him? You might as well sell him and get money for him. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Well, but how much of this is tied to the fact that it's not just Nolan Norris they're having to plug in here new to the position, but also Shaq Moore? [00:20:12] Speaker B: I don't think any because Shaq Moore did that a whole bunch last year and Quilt talked about how if he keeps playing like that he'll add 10 years to his career. So he obviously has absolute faith in Shaq Moore. You know, if they're going to continue to flip side thing, you've got a very veteran Johansson outside of him over on that side. It's not like it's going to be Bernie, you know, if, if we believe this flip wing back thing is actually happening, you know. So I, I'm not saying that that's the answer. I'm just saying I'm disappointed it's not Nolan. I understand why it's Iaga but bums me out, you know. Yeah, the rest of it I all it's 100% fine. And you know, you could maybe argue that, you know, if you buy Iaga should be starting over Nolan, then why isn't Ramiro starting over Kaik? Ramiro is even more of an important leader. You know, Kai is a much more of a disaster in terms of flying around and two footing peoples and giving up PKs. Then Nolan Norris is. Nolan Norris is very reliable and very mentally intelligent about the game. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Except for the yellow card thing. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Well, he's gotten a lot Better about that. He's cleaned that up. But yeah, that was a problem before. I understood it before. But you know, it may be a thing like once you start playing Nolan, you could find out he's not good enough. Then you might as well find it out fast. Not later, not when you're one player away from MLS Cup. Do it now when you're six players away from MLS Cup. That's my take. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Dan, you got any thoughts about this? [00:21:39] Speaker C: I just don't really read a whole lot into games where there's 21 players play through the. Through the course of it. I'm interested to see what, what happens on Saturday that's going to be the first indication of a closer to a game situation. [00:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah, but Iaga IR have started together every scrimmage so far. It's not like it was one game that this happened. It's been every game. So it's like. I know what you're saying, Dan. And we got a couple more games before the season starts and actually the season opener is what really matters, but. Or maybe even a month from now. I don't know. I just like at some point. What's the point of signing these kids and bringing them through if you're never going to play them? Right. This is the FC Dallas. Right? The whole thing, playing, bringing them along, play on them, not playing 34 year olds, no one gives a crap about. [00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah, they're also different periods. There are also different stages in preseason. Nolan had the U20 camp that he went off too late so that he could get those early reps in. So there may be also be like a transition back to. [00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. [00:22:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we'll see how it shakes out. [00:22:42] Speaker A: I'm telling you, ibia's starting. Just watch. [00:22:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think he is too, based on what we're seeing in the spring. [00:22:49] Speaker A: So where are we in the preseason schedule? What's coming up, Dan? [00:22:53] Speaker C: They're back on Saturday. New York Red Bulls at home in Toyota Stadium as part of that Tornado de Teas thing. Be a 1pm kickoff. [00:23:04] Speaker A: What's the tornado de teos thing? [00:23:07] Speaker C: Oh, it's FC Dallas and Houston are hosting some friendlies and they're just putting it under the guise of another nonsense cup name. [00:23:17] Speaker A: And you get a squashed armadillo for the trophy? [00:23:21] Speaker B: No, that's a different tournament entirely. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:23:25] Speaker C: That was a cool trophy. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good one. This is just like the Atlanta Cop or the LA Manga Cop or the Phoenix Sun Cop. It's all just. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Oh, it's just B.S. [00:23:33] Speaker B: They just throw a name on it to make it sound fun, you know? [00:23:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:23:36] Speaker C: It's not even sponsored. Who cares? [00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:40] Speaker C: Mobile Mini sun cup for the win. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Brought to you by third degree. [00:23:47] Speaker B: So after New York Red Bull, Dan this Saturday, what's next after that? [00:23:51] Speaker C: I believe I play Houston in a training ground friendly on the 11th. That'll be a morning game. Atlanta and New York play in another training ground game at the same time, both behind closed doors, so we don't get any access to that whatsoever. But yeah, we're back. [00:24:14] Speaker B: Yeah, they got one last game against Atlanta, I think, right on the 14th. [00:24:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I just figured we'll talk before then. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:23] Speaker A: And is there any buzz, no pun intended, on the mythical signing of a 10? [00:24:31] Speaker B: Well, you know, people that you talk, that I have talked to have mumbled about why you don't like Delgado. You might need to get used to Delgado. [00:24:40] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:24:40] Speaker B: I'm feeling like a summer window vibe in the lands as I sort of listen to the tea leaves. I. I don't like that. I feel like you sold Lucho Costa so long ago that you would have had half a season to line up before the next window came around to line up a move and you didn't get it lined up. So I know it ain't easy, I guess, but I mean, two weeks ago. [00:25:09] Speaker C: There was still definitely a lot of talk about it happening. Now I. I don't know, maybe them going to Portugal kind of slows things down because Andre is obviously there. You know, they obviously. He went to Benfica the other week, Sevilla. So I don't know maybe how much that just grinds things to a halt. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm hoping that the, the sort of stillness or non moveness that I'm feeling is that I'm kind of vibing is. Is just related to Dan, to them being gone, that you could be right, that that could be what this is causing, that I hope it is, because six months ago, for six months to, you know, a whole window ago, is when you got rid of your 10. You should have had time to get another one. You don't, you know. You know, there is a school of thought that if you think you're going to lose Peter Moose after the World cup, then maybe you want to wait, you know, and see what kind of. See what you're doing in that window anyway, you know, is Logan ready? Do I need a new nine or do I need a ten? And something else? I mean, who knows, man? It's like that's. It's hard to know sometimes. What they're thinking. I was like, I don't, I don't know how you think that. You know, when we watch these clips of that they provide of social media, they always have these huddle ups where Quill's in there and they go, you know, they do the typical 1, 2, 3, break, whatever. Their one this time is championship or championships or whatever. Well, if you're going to be throwing that word around as like your training mantra with one dp, I don't, I don't know if you understand how this league works sometimes when that happens. Maybe I'm being super negative but like of your U22s, of which you have five, well now four, only one of them does anything, you know, and that's Delgado Kaik. Like we're not even sure that he's going to be starting. Well, I'm sort of surprised he's starting in a sense. I mean maybe they are going to start him, which would be good. At least that's something. But still, you know, you're going to have your, your midfield triangle. Is Capis, who just came back, who I like but isn't a dp like not. He's not regarded at that level and you're running two 22 year olds or younger in there with him and that's going to carry the MLS cup and championships. I mean it feels out of sorts to me. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Well, it just feels like another season of building, which the team feels like it's been in a perpetual state of building since 2017, maybe 2018, I should say. [00:27:28] Speaker B: I guess if you keep firing your coaches, that's what happens. But. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Well, yeah, that and it just, you know, they start putting blocks on top of each other and then they lose a piece or it doesn't work out so they have to fire the manager and they start putting a new roster together. And it never feels like we ever get to a point where the team and the front office goes, okay, this is our shot. We've got, we've got enough pieces. If we just add a couple of other things, we can make ourselves a legitimate contender. And I, and, and if we're going into a season where we're worried about losing our star player because he may end up having a kick ass World cup man, that just feels like we're just never going to get out of this rut of just being that team. [00:28:09] Speaker B: You know, and they made some noise this offseason about how they really liked their team coming out of last year. And that's fair. They had a good end of the year a good run. We've talked about the, how there should be some mattress in there. But you know, they've, they flat out said we're not going to make a lot of changes this time. But how many times year after year after year, Dan, have we talked about if you stand still, you're going to get passed by. [00:28:32] Speaker C: Yeah, 100%. And we talked about how big, you know, how, how, how good the window was this time last year meant nothing if they couldn't follow up right now. [00:28:47] Speaker A: Well, I think the funny thing about this time last year was we were very much in the exact same mood until the Lucho Acosta thing popped up out of the blue. I mean, we were talking about it being a wooden spoon team. I believe if I recall correctly, we were. And then they got Lucho Acosta. We went, oh, look, there's some ambition. You know, I think we were all curious at the time if it was a good or a bad fit, but we didn't care because it was a former MLS MVP and he couldn't hurt. We didn't think we all turned out to be unbelievably wrong about that. But you know, that's why I'm not too completely what's the pessimistic about this season, but it does feel like it's lining up that way a little bit. [00:29:29] Speaker C: Lucho signed on 12 February last year. That is cocktails and cleats. When they unveil the new jersey. [00:29:36] Speaker A: That's right. [00:29:37] Speaker C: Maybe they will have a brand new number 10 jersey printed just for it. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Yeah, last year this time we were talking wooden spoon. The team is, you know, across the board. They've jettisoned, you know, just got dudes, just guys and added good pieces. Cap has been a great ad. Kaika's matured, even if he's not as good as Romero. Right. Yet. Maybe, you know, a couple of pieces they've added this winter have looked pretty good signings. You know, losing pause as a backup maybe is a little bit of a glow. But if Claudia plays like he did last year, there's a lot to like about the general state of the team. But the same thing is true now as it was last year. You still are looking for that DP level magical guy, that special player that can take you from a middle of the pack team that it's hard to differentiate from anybody else. Totina has something a little special. You got Peter Musa, you have this amazing 9. You have Logan Farrington who's primed to have a great season. Like if you could add the 10 and not just ride Delgado, who, even if you like him, you have to admit he's a low assist guy. He does not get assists. You know, he's. He's a bull in the midfield, but he doesn't string passes together and crack open. [00:30:42] Speaker A: He's not a creator in that. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah, not a creator. So, like, you know, you're not playing a formation that has wings, so you don't have wing creators either. You got wing backs. You know, one of your new wing backs is a relatively good creator, I'll grant you that, but the other one, Bernie, really isn't. So, you know, you're still missing the ability to get the ball to the feet of these great strikers you have. And that is the thing that's going to keep you from being an elite. Not saying a winning team, a championship winning team, I'm saying even just a top third team, you'd like to get out of the middle pack. Otherwise you're just gonna be middle pack on this year with this, with this team. So that's where we are. [00:31:19] Speaker A: Well, again, if we sound pessimistic, let's just remember it was just a week or so later this, this time next last year that suddenly things felt a lot better again. That didn't work out very well, but it felt good to feel good, at least for a little bit of time. [00:31:35] Speaker B: When they went out, the team is for sure better than it was last year. That's not a question. [00:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that was kind of the thing I was going to get into real quick is just if you were to look where the team was at this time last year roster wise and this year. Do you feel like it's a better team this year? [00:31:48] Speaker B: I do, I do. Because Shaq Moore proved himself at center back, which is a big help. I like keeping Anderson. Julio, even though he's not going to be a starter, Capus is much better than what they rolling out last time. Johansson looks to be a fantastic ad. Benjamin, in what we've seen of him in limited, looks like he has a monster engine. You know, if you can figure out a way to get him in midfield more consistently maybe than over some of the other guys, that'll be interesting to see how that pans out. There's a lot of potential there in that kid. I think so. You know, there's for me, Giovanni J. Zeus potentially being back as a possible piece. There's like all the dudes have been upgraded, right? The pieces are all upgraded. I think, you know, you just need the, the King the queen piece, you know, the little special pieces that can do real damage. That's what you're missing. Plenty of time to still do it. But the window doesn't close till mid March. But I just was like, you know, since they've come back from Portugal, I'm not. The winds are blowing towards maybe waiting. [00:32:50] Speaker A: So, you know, Buzz, it dawned on me that with the announcement of your relocation, how does that impact the long standing trick of you leaving town and suddenly things happening to the team? [00:33:06] Speaker B: It worked this week with pause and the new keeper. Yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker A: But now that you're gone all the time. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Well, it'll have to work the other way. It'll be like when I. When I travel, when you come to town. So when I drive back to Dallas for something. Yeah. You know, like I'm thinking about coming back for Dallas cup because I can hit a high volume of games, games in one shot, you know what I mean? So like that's in the cars maybe. So some things like that'll still happen. It'll. The trick is me leaving my nest of computer where I can do my work. That's when I leave out. I'm on the road in a car and all of a sudden, the first time that happened was when I was driving through Arizona and Dallas traded California away and my phone just went, oh, I could drive down the high. I had to pull off the highway. My phone was just going crazy. It was like, you know, same stuff, crazy. [00:33:52] Speaker A: All right, well there you go. There's the catch up. All right, let's move on. Dallas Trinity, man, I. So let's see. The game was Saturday, Friday night. I was watching Mike Leslie do the Channel 8, 10 o' clock news and I got a little thrill when I saw the camera come back to him and the Dallas Trinity logo was on the wall behind him. And he said, Dallas Trinity has a game at the Cotton bowl tomorrow at 4p. It kicks off their 2026 season. I was like, oh no, spring season. And. And then of course it was also. And. And again, there's a lot of things to think about with this because it was, you know, USLSL plays this new, you know, broken winter, winter schedule that MLS is moving to. And here we are and a game being played at the end of January, early February at the Cotton bowl outdoors. And it was brutal, cold. And man, I am pretty sure you could count the number of people at the game on a deck of cards. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think word has gotten out that the season was really starting up again. It's A tough sell. You know, I've certainly been in the Cotton Ball when it's been that cold. I've also been in The Cottonwall was 120. So, you know, pick your poison about which one you don't like. We have extreme weather in Texas, so, you know, in the United States in. [00:35:21] Speaker C: General, I mean, the Cotton Ball last year, that time was brutal and that was without it being below freezing. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I think the thing that I. My observation from this continues to be, I hope MLS is taking notes because the one concern I have about this new schedule is the fact that. That professional leagues in the United States don't stop down for six weeks. It's just not part of our sporting culture and I'm really worried about how they go about treating that time off and keeping themselves somewhere on people's radar. Yeah, for this exact reason. I mean, I mean, I just, I. I really, really think that MLS needs to be keeping an eye on this. And I also think Atletico Dallas needs to be keeping an eye on the struggles that Trinity are having in getting people to come to the Cotton bowl to go to soccer games. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Well, even more when you consider that usl, you know, they've done this Super League off calendar as an experiment in a sense as well, so it's entirely plausible that all of USL might flip their calendar. You know, so it could be something athletic Dallas could be looking at in Fort Worth when they come in as well. So, you know, it's always been a question, not a question. It's always been a concern that with Major League Soccer that you were going to have to educate culturally. Like the United States in general was not dialed in culturally to soccer. And so in a lot of ways it still isn't. You know, your average American isn't aware of the European calendar or the European teams or the way soccer works around the world. So you're going to have to continue to try and educate people. That was always the case and always will be the case probably for quite a long time. You know, I, I think it's a surmountable problem. You know, I do worry about oversaturation in this market, actually. You know, by the time you add athletic Dallas and then another team or two in Fort Worth and the. And these Division 3 teams that are popping up, Rodeo, etc, you know, it makes you wonder if there's enough audience. Makes me wonder. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Well, Dallas did play the game. They ended up drawing Brooklyn one one. It was also the debut of their new manager. Any observations or thoughts from the game that you guys would like to Share. I did not see it. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Yeah, the new keeper went straight into the 11. The new defender that we thought was a center back back appears to be playing right back because Wisner seems to be have been back in the back line too. I could be mistaken around that, but looking at the lineup, I believe that's the case. Steinbrook right into the lineup, you know, so the new pieces they added, they played them right away, which is good. When you get a new piece, you want to see that piece be impactful and get right in the game. Cameron Lancaster scored a long range goal to put them up on nothing. Unfortunately they couldn't hold on. I was excited to see Caroline S.M. get in the game as a young player. Kev's sister, really talented youth international for the United States. Her started to get some minutes of school. Cely Straw came off the bench. Ali Thorne came off the bench. So, you know, at home you'd like to see him win, hold on and win. But when you got three new pieces integrating into the game and we're hearing talk of another fourth piece being signed as well, so it might take them a game or two to get some kinks ironed out but you know, good start I think, you know, it's not a loss, you know. So they're still staying at the top of the standings. Still. Top portion of the standings are not at the top, but you know, they got some. It's nice to see them make some moves that make sense with how we think the new coach wants to play and get them integrated into the team. [00:38:46] Speaker A: All right, what's their next game? [00:38:48] Speaker B: Let's see. They got Fort Lauderdale away. Yeah, they got a couple of away games, which is weird. You know, it is. You would think that like, yeah, it's in February. It can be cold in Dallas, but it often has been really cold other places too. So they go to Fort Lauderdale, they go to Lexington, they go to Carolina, which should be relatively okay weather. And then they get the Dash, the big Houston Dash friendly against the UP division team. So that'll be, that'll be back home in late February and then again in March they open up with another road game. So. So other than the friendly against the Dash, they're not back home with a home game until mid March. So not, not a great schedule. [00:39:28] Speaker C: Just, just talking about the, the attendant stuff. I, I know last season it came up their kickoff times, which is not ideal. The last game they kicked off at 2:30. This game they kicked off at 4. The next game they kick off at 7:30. You can't build an audience if they don't know what time to actually go to the stadium. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. [00:39:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know how they're going about deciding kickoff times. I didn't know if. I didn't know if the afternoon times was because they had gotten feedback that people didn't want to go to Fair park at night or if it was a broadcast schedule issue or what. I. I'm curious as to how they're coming to that decision to play that schedule. [00:40:14] Speaker B: So that was one of my complaints about MLS in the early days, is it felt like every week, FCW House was playing at a different time on a different. You know, it's really hard to know when the games were. Like, in the NFL, you're really dialed in. Everybody knows what the games were. I actually think that the Apple TV has done a good job of locking those down. Where, you know, what time the games are, you know, relative to what, the chaos of the early years. And maybe Trinity's having a little problem with that. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Maybe. Well, I. Yeah, I think they're having trouble with a lot of these little issues about trying to build a market. [00:40:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:43] Speaker A: Here. [00:40:43] Speaker B: Probably fair. [00:40:45] Speaker A: I still think Dan's right. The solution to their attendance problem, ironically, is Frisco. I just. I think there's. That's, like, the smartest thing anybody has said on this podcast and 348 episodes. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah, they're. They're pretty like Athletico. They're super dialed in to be in Dallas, though. I don't know. [00:41:03] Speaker A: That's fine. I. Yeah, if they're gonna get. If they're gonna get kids to go out and go to these games at Fair park, they're gonna have to really ramp up how they're going about trying to pull that audience. [00:41:12] Speaker C: There's a bit of a difference. The Athletico are dialed into being Dallas's team. Dallas Trinity is just dialed into the idea of, well, we're here, so you might as well. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Well, there is a sense, and I don't know that. I mean, my. Just my observation is it feels like that they are. It's kind of like the thing that we used to talk about with Clark and Dan, which is build it and they will come kind of mentality. And the fact that, hey, we're offering professional women's soccer in a very women's soccer, positive, popular, interested, high interest level marketplace. Why wouldn't you come do this? And I. And I think that's where you start to run into the. The kind of. The obstacles of the Cotton Ball. [00:42:02] Speaker C: Well, I think as well, like there was a problem, there was someone in, in the discord had mentioned it that their daughter played for Solar. I believe those players have no awareness of that team unless they play with the players who end up playing for Trinity. Like they need to, they need to be integrated. They need to be like from under 8 or whatever your youngest age group is. They're Dallas Trinity fans because that's the pathway and you let them know, the parents know from a very early age that's the pathway to follow. The same way that, you know, FC Dallas does it with, with FC Dallas youth players. [00:42:41] Speaker B: They did have like a Solar Club night, I think, which is an attempt, Dan, like you said, to try and sort of make that happen. They may not have been very successful with it, I don't know. [00:42:49] Speaker C: But I mean they, they need to have people at Craig Ranch, you know, every, every hub of local youth soccer. They need to, to get that awareness out. But if, even if it's free tickets, they got nothing to lose. [00:43:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Before we move on to the other USL stuff, I did want to do a few minutes of kit talk. [00:43:12] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [00:43:15] Speaker A: Well, no, I'm going to apologize to Dan first because I'm going to put you under the, under the screws because we're just mere 12 days away from supposed reveal of new FC Dallas home kit. Mr. Crook. You're not gonna fail us, are you? [00:43:31] Speaker C: You know, I might. Who knows? Last year we obviously got a little bit jumped by the ding dong on Twitch. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:41] Speaker C: Who I gather is not getting another jersey from FC Dallas. [00:43:46] Speaker A: Or maybe he will just, just despite you, Dan Crook. [00:43:50] Speaker C: Oh, no. Well, it's, you know, it's a different regime. They actually are making smart decisions and stuff. No, I'm still, I'm still interested to see the, the way that I always build these up is one like knowledge of what's going on. We know, we know several of the kits in the league. We know what. We've known what the template's going to be like for a very long time. There's certain things you can make an educated guess on. But then there's FC Dallas always drops hints. There's, you know, little teasers around whether. [00:44:25] Speaker A: It'S from the Easter eggs, some of the marketing materials. Yeah. Design Easter eggs. [00:44:30] Speaker C: Well, and some of them are, some of them are intentional, some of them are not. There haven't been a whole lot of those, unfortunately. And. [00:44:42] Speaker B: So. [00:44:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean I could tell you exactly what I think it's going to roughly be, but details matter in these. [00:44:51] Speaker A: So we do know that there's some sort of fan event coming up. They're going to build. They're going to be building some. No, no, no. Where they're going to be building some. Some marketing materials and people are going to get to see the. The kit in person, but then they have to sign NDAs where they cannot reveal that. [00:45:09] Speaker C: Well, that's no fun. [00:45:11] Speaker A: Dan, will you kidnap one of said people and get them and fill them with drugs and get them to reveal to you? [00:45:18] Speaker C: So, funny thing is, so I did that story on the design behind the archive kit that we dropped the same day the kit came out. So I went up to the stadium and I got to see it, and a couple of days ahead of time, I believe the idea is to do that again. So I need to have the mock up done. And now, before that, before then. Whenever that is. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Well, hopefully it turns out I. Based on some of these other designs I've been seeing coming out across the league. My enthusiasm for this shirt is only holding together because enough people have said to us they've seen it and they think it's awesome. But I'm worried it's going to have too much of a bit going on and not more of the straightforward design that I'm thinking we're hoping it's going to be. [00:46:15] Speaker C: I do understand there is like a. A small detail pattern on it of some variety, which may not be a bit. But, yeah, it may be. [00:46:26] Speaker A: And I also dawned on me, I'm concerned that the back panel will be blue instead of red or something like that. Like, it'll be a predominantly blue kit or something. That's going to drive me nuts. [00:46:35] Speaker C: But leave. It's red. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Don't hold me to that, but okay, I believe it's red. [00:46:42] Speaker B: Well, the shorts and socks are blue, so it's already very blue. [00:46:45] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. But I mean, like, they've. They've typically, you know, lately they've had blue shorts or blue shot socks and, well, even the last jersey that was half and half, it was still red back. I think that's kind of the. The notion of it, that it's not. It's not a blue jersey. It's not a red jersey. It's, you know, a bit of everything. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Sounds just not purple. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Well, I want to. I want to go, ha, ha to Houston for this awful secondary kit they're getting. But I also have to admit, it drives me nuts that the league once again has allowed Houston to get a kit that does not provide enough of a contrast to their primary kit that now they're going to have to march around the league and force home teams to play in their secondary kits because there are going to be so many. Lack of conflict, lack of contrast between either one of the Houston kits and a lot of Major League Soccer's home primary kits. [00:47:44] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't understand how they've managed to put orange in two jerseys. Even if you get away from the light and dark, the two kits clash with each other. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Yeah, you couldn't wear. Houston could not wear their orange kit and this thing. And by the way, Dan, you described the new kit for anybody who hasn't seen it yet, please, the new shirt. We haven't seen the shorts combo or anything like that. [00:48:10] Speaker C: A roadmap where apparently Houston has been submerged in lava and weirdly bruised. Actually, yeah, Arsenal had the bruised banana. This is the bruised tangerine. [00:48:25] Speaker A: I was going to call it wino vomit, but it's. I mean, the problem is, is that if you look at either one of these kits, you. Dallas can't wear a predominantly red or Dallas couldn't wear last year's home kit against either one of those. [00:48:43] Speaker C: No. I mean they could potentially get away against the orange because their orange is so light. But they don't do it. It's always. Yeah. [00:48:54] Speaker A: We also see the new. We've seen images of the new Portland away kit or secondary kit. I really like it. It's kind of a light lemon colored shirt with white shorts and lemon colored socks. I think that's a good looking kit. It's got a cool pattern in the design. [00:49:09] Speaker C: So that is a mock up. We have seen the, the. They've. They've given away the pattern. It's. It's based on Goose Hollow in Portland. So there's I guess a wall with wallpaper on somewhere that has this funky yellow art deco pattern. It's based on that. And then they did. They did a teaser with one of their players because they always. Every year they, they love doing teasers where the guy's like, oh, can I show the new jersey now? Starts to unzip his jacket like. Nope. Right. Zips it straight back up so you get to see the collar and that's about it. [00:49:46] Speaker A: And the color and the collar. [00:49:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, they've got like an olive. [00:49:50] Speaker A: Green and. [00:49:53] Speaker C: See if you're going to be really cool. Really Dog shit. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Yeah. There was also. I'm curious, Dan, if you saw the drawing of both the US World cup kits. The. Now we're starting to see the authentic red and white Stripe kit with the open space for the number in the middle and the revealing the fact that it is a white panel in the back. I'm like everybody else and I'm curiously hopeful that it ends up with blue shorts, but, man, that. See, this is where I'm really confused about how FIFA is going to be a stickler for light and dark kits. And if you wear that kit with blue shorts, I don't know how that is defined as your light kit. It's kind of like the Houston thing, you know, if. If you know what I mean. [00:50:37] Speaker C: They. They've had some exceptions for light jersey, dark shorts, like, you know, like Germany. Other than that one World cup where England, Germany and a few others were forced to play. And in light shorts, they've been pretty good about having the distinction of you can play in a light jersey, but. But dark shorts against someone that plays in dark jersey and light shorts. Did you see the away kits been revealed now? [00:51:04] Speaker A: Well, I've, I've. I saw a picture of just the shirt today. I didn't. I don't think I saw the shorts. What color are the shorts? The same color as the shirt, I assume. [00:51:13] Speaker C: So the images that came out from Nike are not the shorts and socks for the kit. They were. They were shown with these black shorts that have this red to blue US logo and then red socks. So they obviously go to something else, but I, I don't know what that would be for. [00:51:35] Speaker A: I wonder if that's one of those lifestyle photos because they released an image of the new Uruguay kit that is really sweet, but they had the guy wearing like cargo pants with him or something. And it's weird because you thought it's a reveal of the full kit and it's clearly not. It's just a kid on a kid wearing the home jersey with his own shorts or something like that with it. So maybe that's what they're showing with that US shirt. [00:51:58] Speaker C: They actually, weirdly, they did another set of photos of the year ago, one with the shorts. [00:52:03] Speaker A: Oh, did they? [00:52:04] Speaker C: Yeah. It makes no sense. I mean, yes, I hate that they do this, that they. I mean, don't get wrong. Soccer jerseys are a fashion item. It's a huge thing. Now. The market, secondary market especially, is massive for retro stuff. But a kit's a kit. Just show it how it's supposed to be. [00:52:27] Speaker A: You mean for a game and not a night out on the town? [00:52:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's cool. [00:52:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:31] Speaker C: You know, don't get me wrong, that's cool. That's great. But you know, like the. The France one. Right. They've got the patterned shorts that go with the shirt. That's the selling point. I want to see that Nike doing this little crap. What's it. The little rope trim. And then they've got a little. A secondary color. I want to see how that interacts from the shirt to the shorts that. That can make or break a kit. Take the LAFC jersey. We've just seen the. The pictures have just come out of the. The actual jersey itself with the. The colors just become too dominant. So the thing is that they don't reveal on any of those pictures. They're not playing in black shorts anymore. They are playing in gold shorts. So it looks absolutely horrendous when they're paired together. But they haven't released a photo of that yet. So that will make or break that kit for a lot. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Maybe that's why, because it looks horrendous together. [00:53:26] Speaker C: Oh, it looks dog shit. And same with like Seattle. Seattle's gonna have the two different color shorts. They're gonna have the. The light teal and. Well, it's not rave green anymore. But those sort of details, that's. That's important. I don't want to wait until the first game to see that sort of stuff. That's the nice thing about, you know, like cocktails and cleats and stuff. They'll sometimes have like some. A couple of guys in. In full kit to show it off. [00:53:55] Speaker A: All right, very good. There's some kid talk. Let's move on into the news from last week. We've been waiting for more details on how USL plans to roll out their new Division 1 San sanctioned league, which they did now do the right thing and call it USL Premiere. So there you go. So now it'll be. It'll be. It'll mirror the English pyramid of the top division being called Premier. Next second being USL Championship. And then getting super confusing. The third tier is now called USL1. [00:54:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it's stupid. [00:54:31] Speaker A: And the fourth tier is USL2. Now what they've also defined is they will have a set of teams for the premier. They hope to eventually be 20. They hope that the championship will also settle at 20. And then curiously, this is the one I thought was interesting. They're going to take the Division one league and chop it up into regions much like how the National League is done in England. And I'm sure they'll clarify some sort of pathway to championship from that as well. They have admitted that when they launch the league in 2028, it probably will not start with 20 teams. It's likely that either both or, or either or both of the championship and Premiere may have as few as 12 or 14 teams in it and it will launch in 2028. It's. And, and they're also, you know, continuing to throw out the promotion, relegation discussion, although they are very much being a bit shady is not the right word. They're being very vague about how they're going to implement the promotion, relegation piece of this. And I think there are a lot of reasons behind that and we can discuss that if you guys are at all interested. [00:55:51] Speaker C: Definitely. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Well, I think, you know, the, the surface level, the macro level stuff is that it all played out exactly like, about like pretty much like we thought it was. Maybe there's some detail in the number of teams, the 20 teams. But, you know, we knew Premiere was coming. We knew that it was going to have these major markets and we knew that we were almost certain it was going to be Premier, that they were going to call it that. They already had the names lined up. Championship of First Division. So, you know, there's nothing shocking in there and all that stuff, other than the fact that it's actually the first time there's been a concrete amount of information that it literally is 20, 28 and they're literally going to have these teams that it's not specific teams, but a certain amount of teams, you know, and the, and the first time we've literally heard since the initial announcement any of that stuff. And so that for them to still be talking about Pro Rail is interesting. You know, I, I'm not convinced that it'll launch with that still. I think that's your beer. And you guys have both been saying that, but it might not. [00:56:44] Speaker C: Yeah, the way it was explained to me was they would hold off on involving Premier with promotion, relegation for a few years just to let the division get established. It sounds, from everything they said in the past week, it sounds like they, they're at least intimating it will, it will involve all three divisions when they, when they're gonna start realistically with 12 teams in the Premier, which needs to grow to 20. I, I mean, do you just say, hey, yeah, we're gonna reprieve whoever went down and promote from below the same way that you would build out a league in other countries, and then that way you, you kind of negate the risk for your investors of, hey, first, however many years until we hit 20, you have no, you have no chance of getting relegated. Your investment's technically safe. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Well, on the stadium's qualifications for, you know, Division one, Division two status are obviously a massive question too, like how that will work. You know, can teams even meet those requirements right now? And will you be able to if Rodeo SC comes up and playing in Salina in their high school stadium? Well, how do they get promoted up to premier? You know, there's so many, many questions that have to be ironed out. And some of that stuff is indicated by U.S. soccer, not necessarily by the league itself. You know, the population densities and the amount of stadium sizes you need and stuff like that. It's not, it's not as simple as people think it is sometimes. [00:58:12] Speaker C: No, it'd be, it'd be interesting to see if this creates a shift in the way stadiums are adjudged. Right. In the uk you have ground grading. So while the capacity is a very small part of it, it gets into the minutiae of how many showers are in the locker room, how many men's and women's restrooms, how many ADA compliant, where is the tunnel in relation to the center, to the halfway line, how much of it is covered, what is the distance from the pitch perimeter advertising to the touchline? You know, all the, all the fun stuff that most people don't really care about, but it creates this system where you have gradings. I think it's A through F and that, that dictates where you can and can't go in the pyramid. A famous example was Stevenage in 1996. They won the conference. At the time, they, they were denied promotion to the football league because their ground just simply didn't meet the grading. And there was no, there was no grace period of, oh, you know, you've got two years to do X amount of work. Because it was, I guess it was that far behind Sherman or Denison, wherever Texoma is going to be playing, you know, you're not going to say, oh, hey, yeah, you've got two years to, to make this a 15, 000 seat at this stadium that you don't own and you don't have the land to build on. So they've, they've got to come up with something that's a little more nuanced. [00:59:57] Speaker A: Yeah. It's obvious to me that U.S. soccer can throw out all sorts of exemptions for clubs that don't currently meet the, the requirements. Requirements. [01:00:05] Speaker C: And they can do that with the NASL doing that. [01:00:08] Speaker A: Sure. 100. Just roll with me here. I think the problem is, is that if you go through and look at the collection of clubs they have now only four clubs out of the entire USL pyramid play in a stadium that even meets the 15, 000 seat requirement. Half of the rest of the teams in the championship play in what are called soccer specific stadiums. The rest play in a collection of minor league baseball stadiums, college stadiums, former baseball stadiums or multi sport venues. A lot of them are turf instead of grass and the ones that are even beautiful little soccer stadiums are like 7,000ft or the 7,000 max capacity. So setting aside the average attendance stuff so far, the question becomes. [01:00:58] Speaker C: Even if. [01:00:58] Speaker A: You can initially find 12 teams to within the first year or two, or even three, meet the 15,000 seat requirement by either moving into a facility that can accommodate that, modify your existing structure or build something new from the ground up, what about the rest of them? As promotion, relegation takes place, or you're trying to add more teams to the original 12 or 14 to get to that point? Point, are there enough investors out in the world who are interested in putting that amount of money at risk to help facilitate the growth of stadiums at a pace that allows them to build out a significant number or a majority of these clubs that are playing in the championship into the premier or even down at level one? I mean, if you just go through and look at the teams that are playing in USL won today, none of these teams are in markets that make any sense in terms of building out. I mean just I'm sitting here looking at the list and I'm thinking about Knoxville and Naples and Ford, Madison and Spokane and Union Omaha. Are these really legitimately serious markets that if they've got the team on the field good enough to get promoted to the perfect to, from, from one to championship to premier, do they even have the ability to fund a stadium to meet that stuff? And that's the part of this thing that just doesn't make any sense to me and how they're going to move forward. [01:02:35] Speaker C: I think they could, they could adopt the way that Spain does it. So Spain, the standard requirement is 15,000 seats, but they will give an exemption based on, you know, geography, whatever. So like Hitafe, they have an 11, 000 seat stadium there. They have dispensation because it would make no sense for them to put another 4,000 empty seats in. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there's going to be real struggle there too with even if you give dispensation where a team that comes with a 5,000 seat stadium can come up, where are they going to generate the revenue to buy and pay players that are going to be good Enough to compete at a Division 1 level because there's a massive, massive revenue hole if you don't have the venue. We don't have a TV driven revenues set up yet. Certainly not for usl. One barely do for mls, if we even do so well. [01:03:28] Speaker A: I think that's part of the conversation, which is it's romantic to think that a team like Union Omaha could win their way into the Premier League. But the reality is the is that TV market holds very, very little value in terms of an advertising interest. And if suddenly your Premier League is littered with markets that are ranked 100 plus in the ranking scale, the ability to sell that on a national scale really becomes reduced in terms of broadcast deals. And the reason why I find all this really interesting is that I did not know this until I began to research this is how the USL handles revenue sharing. So this is interesting to me because, you know, a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to find ways to make fun of or insult Major League Soccer by calling it franchises or affiliates and how it's a buy in structure and it's, it's not an open pyramid. Well, I hate to break it to a lot of people who are really excited about the usl, but the USL is very much its own business sandbox. It's a privately owned entity by a family partially in Tampa Bay. And what I found out that was really curious to me is that, you know, Major League Soccer is like the ultimate revenue sharing and trying to foster stability and financial growth through all the clubs, through each other. USL is like, hey, you guys are coming in here, you're going to pay us a fee. And you're largely left to your own devices to figure out how you're going to keep yourself in business. The only revenue sharing done in USL is through the sponsorships, advertising and the little amount of money that they raise in terms of a TV broadcast deal. And they take 50% off the top. That other 50% is what is trickled down to the entire the of the USL pyramid. [01:05:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:23] Speaker A: Last year it was reported that The USL raised $65 million in expansion fees. Exactly zero of that was trickled down to the clubs. It was kept by the league itself. [01:05:36] Speaker C: Wow. [01:05:37] Speaker A: So I'm not saying that's a bad business model. I'm not criticizing the model. What I'm saying is, is that it means that the clubs, unlike Major League Soccer, are one, not 100%, but almost wholly dependent on raising the revenue to sustain themselves. And what I think this gets into is the thing that I think is really the number one thing that this entire project is going to need and depend on is a clearly thought out and defined and well communicated narrative of expectation sitting setting about what this thing is going to be and what it is not. I'm very concerned that there is a significant percentage of people who are excited about all of this who think suddenly this is going to be the great Major League Soccer gobbler and competitor and killer. And what I think everybody fails a lot. Not everybody, a lot of people have failed to recognize is that MLS is a 30 year head start. And when you begin to look at the numbers, by the way, currently USL doesn't have a CBA in place. It expired the end of last year. The number, the number that I've seen argued about the hopeful minimum wage for a starting USL player is only slightly more than half than what the least of what the, what the minimum is for an MLS reserve player. [01:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah, MLS has been running a model that makes everybody healthy for a long time, you know, and in a lot of ways that's the way the NFL does it too with their revenue sharing and their salary caps and all that kind of stuff. So like, you know, this, this idea that Pro Rail is going to fix everything is that this is a very cutthroat country in terms of, of business economics and revenue streams. And if those things don't exist, your franchises don't exist. There's been a lot of turnover in the middle to low end of USL for year after year after year and I don't know that Pro Rail solves that. [01:07:28] Speaker A: Well. What happens when this thing kicks off for the first couple of seasons and the quality of play on the field is much more in line in the gap between the NWSL and the USL SL than let's say the difference between the Premier League and the championship in England. I think a lot of people are going to be really. I think that's going to be interesting to see how the marketplace accepts that. [01:07:55] Speaker B: It takes a long time to get your leaf to a substantial level to be able to afford the players like the MLS does. Now. The gap is going to be massive in the beginning, I think. [01:08:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean you're going to have this issue like USL Super League has now. There's a huge perception issue of every player that leaves nwsl. Even the Canadian League is perceived higher than the Super League right now. So no one, no one, you know, the, the players that Dallas signed last week, no one expected that. No, no, like end up no one in NWSL cycles because it's not A comparable league. [01:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Look, this is supposed to be a division that is better than the USL Championship. So that is going to be. Have to be some sort of significant step between those two. But I do think when it launches and for the first probably decade, the difference between USL Premier and mls, I think, is going to be a far greater gap than what a lot of people are anticipating or hoping at this point. [01:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I think premiere and championship won't be very far apart in the beginning. It'd be hard to tell the difference, to be honest. [01:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Would you be surprised? [01:09:12] Speaker B: You know, that's what I expect. [01:09:13] Speaker A: And, and also, let me also say I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I just think it will only be a bad thing if the people operating these organizations don't communicate that expectation clearly up front. [01:09:26] Speaker B: It just comes back to the same thing with, with, like we talked about with the calendar for Flippage, you know, the education of the audience that people have to understand how it's going to be that like this, this isn't. You can't walk in and throw around money like MLS throws around. Now, MLS took 30 years to get to that level and no one's going to do that. And these unproven markets, these unproven teams, you know, that are still trying to get their footing under them and. And break even, you know, I mean, like, America is not a country where our sports teams operate at massive, massive losses like teams in the Premier Leagues do. Everybody here is going to be making money and want to be making money, and they're not going to be burning, you know, billions of dollars every year on floating these franchises out of their own pocket. That's not the way they do business in the soccer here, you know. [01:10:07] Speaker A: Well, I think that's why we all get very worried about Trinity. [01:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why those MLS franchises show up in the top 20 valuable teams in the world because of revenue potential and the way MLS works without relegation. [01:10:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, just to say that Forbes released the money list, I think, last week. Yeah, no MLS team featured in the top 20 or 50. But when it comes to the most valuable, MLS is always the most featured team in the top 20 in the world or top, first featured league. Sorry. [01:10:45] Speaker A: Well, it will be fun to watch. I mean, I'm glad we're getting more and more information. I'm thoroughly excited about the potential of all of it. I. You know, Athletico, Dallas has done a really nice job kind of slowly growing their brand. I can't tell you how excited I am about the idea that if in fact it does happen, that this is a league that starts with a natural Dallas Fort Worth Darby built into it. I think that would be awesome. And at that point, I don't even care what the level of play is. I just want to see what a Dallas Fort Worth Darby looks like twice a season. I just think that'll be kick ass, especially if it's an equally well branded club as as Dallas has worked towards over in Fort Worth. So we'll see how that all plays out. More, more to come, as they say. All right, anything else that you guys want to get into? We've gone over our normal limit and Buzz looks very tired. [01:11:40] Speaker B: I'm very tired. It's been a very long week. It's not the place to get into it, but it's been tough. [01:11:45] Speaker A: Yeah, my bad. All right. Anything from you, Dan? [01:11:49] Speaker B: No. [01:11:49] Speaker C: No, not. [01:11:50] Speaker A: All right, get off this thing and go make a mock up, please. [01:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah, get up. [01:11:55] Speaker C: I need to run to whole Foods first, but maybe. [01:12:02] Speaker A: Go get some granola or something. All right. [01:12:04] Speaker C: Filling up five gallon jugs. Doing it the right way. [01:12:07] Speaker A: All right, good for you. Well, Dan, thank you much, very, very much. [01:12:10] Speaker C: Thank you, Buzz. [01:12:13] Speaker B: Y miss you, buddy. Thanks. Yeah, first hand. Sorry you had to stir up my nose for an hour and a half. We'll get that fixed up, straightened up. But I'll be back in Dallas next week. Wants to have lunch or something. I'll be around. [01:12:24] Speaker A: All right, very good. All right, boys, thank you so much. And thank you to the DFW soccer curious out there. We'll speak to you next week on another edition of third Derek degree, the podcast. [01:12:37] Speaker C: This podcast, make it relegated. [01:12:40] Speaker B: Third degree. [01:12:41] Speaker A: The third degree. The third degree. The 3rd degree. 3rd degree. The third degree. [01:13:01] Speaker C: Sam.