3rd Degree the Podcast #337

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Third Degree, the Third Degree NEP Podcast. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Third Degree the Third Degree N Podcast. Third Degree the Third Degree N Podcast. [00:00:22] Speaker C: Third Degree the Third Degree Ned Podcast. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Well, hello there, DFW soccer. Curious. You welcome to another episode of Third Degree the podcast. This is where you prove yourself to be most curious because it is post FC Dallas season, not a lot going on. So if you're here, God bless you. On the panel today, as always, Dan Crook. Howdy, Dan. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Hey, I'm curious too. I have no idea what we're talking about. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Ed, your hero, my hero, everybody's hero. Editor, founder of third degree.net and the original soccer influencer. Live from somewhere not DFW. Buzz Carrick. Come in, Buzz. [00:01:06] Speaker C: Well, I think we should talk about how gets better. I mean, that seems like a thing to talk about. [00:01:13] Speaker B: I feel like we've had that conversation 30 times, Buzz. [00:01:16] Speaker C: Well, we had a lot of conversations during the season about how they could get better in the season, but now this is the fun time. We get to play fantasy GM and suggests all these. What they should do and who they should get rid of and all that stuff. So that's kind of fun. [00:01:29] Speaker B: All right. Yeah. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Very good. Well, let's dive into it. The season is over. We've. Have you guys watched any MLS playoffs? [00:01:37] Speaker C: Some of it, yeah. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Dan, have you. Have you had time to watch any of the games? [00:01:42] Speaker A: Just the usual highlights. Not really. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Invested. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it's hard to get super into it. Although some of the games have actually been quite exciting. Very good. Messi doing messy things. Fantastic stuff. The Minnesota win. Congratulations to our friend Bruce Dunard, who him and his loon friends got a big win over Seattle and progressed into the playoffs. And I think that Vancouver LAFC game on the 22nd is going to be unbelievable. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the weirdest thing is that there's like a pause. That's kind of dumb, but I guess I understand why. [00:02:19] Speaker B: Why? Because they need to give everybody a week to rest up before the next game, I guess. Oh, that's right. It's international break. [00:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Playoffs are too important and the good teams have good players, so those players get called up. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:30] Speaker B: It's the international break. This bummer. Well, it is. You know, they'll fix all that when they go to the other calendar and they'll play a bunch of games like the Canadian championship final was last night. We'll talk more about that. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk more about that before the end of the episode. Okay. Season's over. Buzz, I have a feeling you've done nothing but think about this 24 7. It's kept you from sleeping at night. You've got one of those crazy rolling cork boards or whiteboards in your house that you roll around the house and you've got this all scripted out. What is Eric Quill going to do this off season? [00:03:06] Speaker C: Well, they're Excel documents. They're not. They're not. [00:03:11] Speaker B: You're all digital. [00:03:13] Speaker C: Well, the entire thing absolutely 100 hinges on one player and one player only. And that player is a starting grade center back. Because whether you get that player or not changes the entire thing, right? We went through all of this season with Dallas bleeding goals in the back and then Quill had to adjust to a back three, back five, whatever you call it. I called it back three, three center backs. And that helped. Not 100, but it helped. And we talked about how this team, this club, this season was one of the more historically low teams in FC Dallas history in terms of their goals allowed low being bad. They allowed a lot of goals high, low ranking. And that's the thing, like if you get a starting grade center back and you can go back to a back four, that radically changes your plan relative to having to stick with the back three. If you can't get another center back, if you're stuck going with a 33, 34 year old Ibiago, or if you're stuck going with Abubakar or Alvaro or or Shaq Moore playing as a center back all the time, or Shaq Moore and Nolan, if that's your plan, you're going to have to go with the back three. So that's it. Can you get the center back or not? Because if you get the center back, then you bring into play all kinds of different formations. If you don't get the center back, you're stuck with the same formation you ended the season with. And you don't have any options because you're really stuck with the front two. Farrington and Musa, that's the front two that works. Nothing else they did worked and you're stuck with that back three if you can't get a center back. [00:04:50] Speaker A: So. [00:04:51] Speaker C: And then he has to start talking about, you know, what you can do after that, but you know, you have to hinge it on that. So hopefully they've been doing their homework or if they've been doing their research. Dan, I'm not super confident. How do you feel about it all? [00:05:03] Speaker B: Dan, you in agreement with this? Just. [00:05:07] Speaker A: That just sounded depressing, honestly. Yeah. 100. I mean any team's built from the back, right? Unless you're in Miami, obviously. So yeah, that, that massive change in formation just. It takes so much out in the midfield to, to cater for it. [00:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it changes the way the wing backs are gonna instead of outside backs. It changes how you would effectively you can use a front two and what other options you can bring in. It just changes everything. So, you know, if you can get that guy, then you have ways to get to alter things up in other ways and have more interesting conversations because then you can get into discussions about is it a fourth? [00:05:45] Speaker A: How you get the ball to Musa. [00:05:47] Speaker C: Yeah, how you get the ball to Musa. Is it a 4, 3, 3? Is it a 4, 2, 3, 1? You know, it's. Is it a flat 4? I don't think that's likely. But that does get you a two striker system, a flat four. You know, and some of that, some of the conversations begin to be like how do you use Moose and Farrington together? What system best works for them? But you know, I think you should begin with the center back. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Okay. When the season started, before the season started and before Lucho was ever in the picture and then not in the picture, we talked about Eric Quill arriving with a favored preferred formation and tactic. And I suspect what you're talking about is the decision to go back to four in the back is the start of him going back to whatever his preferred formation and tactics are. Maybe refresh everybody. What that looks like, what that is? [00:06:36] Speaker C: Well, it's. It's a version of a 4, 3, 3. There are multiple versions of it, but that's the basic genesis of it. It's not a 442. It's. It's not a 3, 5 2. It's the back four with three midfielders in front and then three people up top. You know how you implement those is. Can change from season to season. Quill is an adaptable guy. He will adapt to what he has. But if you look back to say for example When North Texas SC was winning a championship with Quill, he used a 4, 3, 3. He had more often than not had a bit of a single pivot six. You know, it was. Gosh, it was Allison was one year. The year before that was Dan the, the, the really rangy I camera's name. I have to look it up. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Alpha Sani Ja. [00:07:19] Speaker C: That's the guy. Jata. Thank you. Yes, jata, really rangy 6 can guy that can cover sideline to sideline and really, really hit. And then there'd be an eight in there. In the championship run. I think it was often the Vitro Rodriguez, you know, as the 8 or, or as the 10. Sometimes he would, you know, he uses two eights. One of them is a little higher and a little freer often. Almost always with those teams we saw the other Rodriguez brother as a winger, but he was a, he was like a false winger. He was coming underneath, you know, he's now the, the, the, the string puller for Charleston Battery in usl, you know, so it wasn't always a wide guy on that side. Sometimes it was a guy that was drifting, more often than not drifting underneath as a false swing. I think that would have appealed, for example, to Jesus Ferrer if he was here. Perhaps it could have fit a Petrino on the team now perhaps, you know, and the other side would tend to be the high side, would be the high striker. The, the one year was Pepe, another year it was more of a, of a straight line kind of physical guy, it's post up kind of guy. Yeah. And then another time it was Damus. And you know, there was almost always, even if it was a winger and a high guy, they often had verticality. Quilt likes guys that can really run, you know, and, and that's why the false wing would play into that was when the false one would slide underneath those two guys getting vertical. Whether it would be two guys playing high with a 10 underneath or whether it's a high guy and then a. The slasher coming from the wide. You know what? The first year Thomas was a wing, and the second year Thomas was the nine. So again, adaptability, Buck will, you know, showing versatility with what he wants. But it starts with the baseline 442. 4. Excuse me, not 4, 2 baseline back 4. And then more often than not, at North Texas it was that single pivot six. But when I was watching New Mexico play, it looked like more often than not. And I only watched clips of their games. I didn't watch the whole thing. It looked more often than not they were coming out of a 4, 2, 3, 1 with like a pure 10 kind of playmaker, you know, and two real wingers and two guys underneath. Not more, not both sixes, but, you know, more of a six, eight kind of guys, but coming out of a double. So some flexibility would happen in that space. And it might happen depending on what you have and what you can get. You know, for example, if the team would say to you, you can have one dp, you know, where do you want to use it and what can we get. And then that might dictate a lot what you're trying to do. Like you could see a cap is palm call double pivot, if palm call could be healthy, you know, or you could see those guys as double eights with a kaik as a single pivot six behind them. You know, there's variety in there. That would depend a lot on what else he could then get going forward. But it has to start with that back four. [00:09:55] Speaker B: All right. You made a mention a reference to a number of dps and I think before we go any further in this conversation, it probably behooves us to step away from the tactics and the formation and move to the off the field stuff and have a discussion really quickly about the reality of the situation Dallas as a organization sits in, which is, you know, by the end of the season we had all seen the salary structures and all the lists and suddenly now we went from thinking that the Hunts had spent, you know, pretty fairly for the season and they did. When they went out and got Lucho and spent that money and paid him a fair salary to finding out that once you cut him out of, if he's the exception, the rest of the salary wage bill for the team was what the SEC was this one of the five lowest? What was it? I don't remember. Second lowest. And, and this all ties back into the original concerns of. Hey, wait a second. Clark Hunt is a bottom line business dude. They are hemorrhaging revenue because they've got the stadium half closed. How are they going to spend moving into this three year, at least three year project? And I think we found out that a lot of what we were worried about actually played itself out in terms of how they spent this year. [00:11:14] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:11:16] Speaker B: So the question, and I'm setting that as I'm establishing that as known information. Right. We now know that to be the fact. Agree? Dan, do you agree? [00:11:28] Speaker A: I mean, for the most part you obviously offset some of what you'd expect on salary into transfers. 5 million with Lucho, 4 with Kaik, 3 with what's his name. Origiday. You were obviously a year off of spending 9 million on. On Musa and another million and a bit on Sali. Okay, I nearly forgot his name. Is that bad? Yeah. So I do wonder how much, how much of it is. You know, here's the overall budget versus here's the transfer budget. Here's the wage budget. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Interesting. Well, it all kind of comes out on the wash because those, the transfer fees get amortized over the term of that Player's contract. So it's in the numbers, correct? [00:12:22] Speaker C: No, it gets it. You can take it as a lump sum if you want or you can. [00:12:27] Speaker B: But we don't know if they do or not. [00:12:28] Speaker C: We don't know if they do or not. And you can amateurize it over the cap hit. Well, the listed salaries are still accurate. What's not? This is why the salary cap is not exactly the MLS players union. There's no reason to get deep in the woods here. But you could have a cap hit. That is the dp, the buy price. That's the reason why, like you might look at a player that say on like 500k and go, why is he a TAM player? Well, it's because what you're not seeing is the couple hundred grand a year that's on the cap for the buy that happened. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:59] Speaker C: That they're using TAM for or something or whatever. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Well, I think this is important that we, we talk through this because I don't want to have this discussion and make a comment like we know this is fact without being fair in our review of how they spent their money this year because I think Dan makes a great point. They did go out and spend quite a bit of money in transfer deals over the last two season. But I do think I, I don't think it's unfair to try to make it relative to the rest of the league. [00:13:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fair. It their salaries rank where their salaries rank. But like the good example is Osaze Irigide. If you look at his base salary, he's on 580k which is not above the TAM player threshold. So why is he a TAM player? Well, that's because they paid 3 million to get him. So like it's a million a year they're using as a buy down for him. So that's why he's so like, that's why the ML salaries are not exactly the cap hit. Which, so you know they're. They're second lowest in the amount of salary they're paying without. [00:13:54] Speaker B: Okay, yeah. So is, let's go back to that then. So is the fact that they are so low in the rankings of how much they paid in salary. Is that a byproduct of. Is, is that a byproduct of a limited budget set because of the lack of revenue due to the stadium situation, the expenses going out and the lack of INC coming in, or is it the league is just advancing faster and teams are spending more? [00:14:22] Speaker C: Well, a little bit. Is that they, they did it to Themselves, in a sense, in two ways. And one is, as Dan mentioned, is they used. They have spent some player money on to buy. And so there, there is money going to that. So that's a portion of the collective budget that's being spent is some of it is on buy because they had all that tam, right. So might as well use it. So the second thing is, is the DP U22 rule where you can have two DPS and four U22s or you can have three and three and Dallas has chosen the four and two and they have four U22s. They still have them. Solly who never plays because he sucks. Giovanni J. Zeus never plays because he's been on two years back to back knee problems. And then you have Delgado and you have Brain Fart. Who's the fourth one? Dan? Oh, kids, you know, Kite plays more than they thought he was going to. Delgado once Lucho left turned out to be pretty decent. So, you know, you're at about a 50 hit rate on that position this year. But that limits the amount of dps you had. So they only had two. They had Acosta and they had Musa, but Acosta's gone. So you 100 can replace Acosta. You got the money back you spent on them pretty much. You have a salary slot in your budget available. 100. You can add a DP of comparable price. If you want to add a second DP on top of, well, like I said, technically would be a third one. You need to jettison one of your U22s so you can do another loan of in a Sully. If you wanted something like that, you could put Giovanni Jesus on the IR again. You know, things like that. Maybe someone in North Texas for the year technically possible to open up that spot. [00:15:55] Speaker A: One thing to keep in mind as well is, you know, we always talk about cycles and they're kind of getting to the end of next season potentially. They could have a lot of turnover. You've just come off of getting rid of the salaries of Areola and Ferreira and retaining part of Areola's salary. So, you know, some of it is just a case of they're coming to the end of this transfer cycle and things should pick up after 26 or 27. Potentially. [00:16:31] Speaker C: Yeah, crazily. They have going into this offseason, they have 24 players already under contract under like first team sort of contracts. And then they have 13 players that are either an option or a free agent. Jacob Jackson's actually a free agent, but there's 13 of those guys. Well, that's more than 30 players already because they had some guys out on loan and they have three players that are going to turn into homegrowns automatically. They're on hybrid contracts and that's not including any other draft picks or homegrowns you might sign this winter. So they already have a lot of players, but they're going to decline some of those contracts. They probably will try and move one or two people. As Dan mentions, there's a bunch of people that come out of contract next season. So, you know, you have a lot more flexibility then than you do now. As you pointed out many times quite accurately, I believe the budgets are a little more tailored and a little more trimmed right now because of the stadium design. I think it's far more likely they're going to stay in the 4, 2 model this year and maybe try and have one DP. And not to be unkind, that DP could be Paxton because Paxton. Paxton's salary is above the DP threshold. You can just untam him and he's the second dp. So that's entirely possible. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Okay, this. That's a lot of granular detail for a general question I was trying to get at, which is do we think the 2026 team will from a. From a roster spend and transfer spend. From the spending point of view of improving the team, will it reflect the fact that the team is dealing with budgetary constraints due to the stadium project? [00:18:08] Speaker C: I think they will. They will go back. They will at least bring in money equivalent to Acosta because they sort of have, from my understanding of talking to people, they have an idea like a basic like budget in mind, like a playing budget in mind, you know, so having vacated a pretty substantial salary and gotten the money back for him, they will have the freedom of that money. The hunts of Val. And I have no reason to doubt them that they don't take out fees when they make them from selling a player. So if they made that four and a half or whatever it was for a cost of back then, that means they have that to spend on player to buy a player with or multiple players with. So, you know, if you take them at their word, and we have never seen any evidence that's not true. [00:18:48] Speaker B: But if we find out that they go the two DP route. [00:18:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker B: And we find out that one of those DPS is Paxton Palm Call, we're going to be really bummed, right? [00:18:58] Speaker C: Well, you certainly could be, but obviously Paxton's a really good player. But obviously, you know, that would be A stand pat. And every single year we say this. If you stand pat, you will get passed. If this team, you know, Quill made great strides over the back end of the season. But if they stand pat, they will slide back into the. Miss the playoffs teams again. They need to do some things to get better. Starting with the center back, number one. You know, if you bring in a starting center back and make Paxton the second DP and Paxton is actually healthy, then I can probably live with that. If he's not healthy, then I can't live with that. That's obviously terrible roster management, you know, which one do you think is more likely is the question. Certainly it would behoove them to spend the cost of money on something, you know, on some kind of transfer. You know, when you get that kind of money in, you should spend it. They did it with peppy money. They did it with everybody else's money. They did it with Velasco's money. You know, they know they need a center back. The center back shouldn't cost 6, 5, 6 million. It should cost less than that. You should be able to get one like your G day for good price, you know, not too expensive. But that might be. They might consider that most of the cost of money. Then they might leave them without like another million left to add a player or two. Maybe they'll do a trade, you know. Gotta start with that center back first though. [00:20:09] Speaker A: One thing as well. Them picking the 4 and 2 does give them an extra 2 million which, you know, if we're talking about the potential for reduced income to reduce the budget, that that becomes important. [00:20:25] Speaker C: It does. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker C: Remember they have a bunch of money left over. Like, you know, the money that was reported by the league as like here's how everybody has this season. Remember FC Dallas has a whole bunch of it. They slid forward. It was because remember they took away the year qualifications for a lot of that funny money. So Dallas has got a bunch of money sitting around still. Not as much as last year. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:44] Speaker C: But they still got a bunch. Remember they offered 12 million for Evander, so they had the money around. You know, they didn't use it all last time and they didn't use it all this time, so. And then they got more in from a cost of sale. [00:20:55] Speaker A: So that wasn't even factoring in the funny money. [00:20:57] Speaker C: Yeah. So like there's money around available for these players. So it's just going to be a question of whether they feel ambitious about it or not. You know, whether they. I think you gotta. Dan's Right. You're in year two of a three year cycle, three to four year cycle with Quill. If you like him as a coach, you need to give him some, some ability to improve his team. [00:21:16] Speaker B: So I kind of feel like that's kind of the point of all this which is expectation setting for the curious and just trying to figure out what do we as this thing, what how would we tell people to set their expectations for 2026? [00:21:33] Speaker C: Well, right now it's impossible to say because you know, I think if you, if you have to go with the same defense you have now, it's going to be relatively problematic. [00:21:41] Speaker B: No, but I think you've. No, I don't even think you need to say that again. You've already established the first expectation is go out and get another Iraq a quality or better center back. Right. [00:21:51] Speaker C: Well, how much do you believe that they can do that or not is the thing. [00:21:53] Speaker B: Well, my, my. There's a difference between belief and expectations. My expect you like you set the expectation. Now whether or not I believe they can meet it is a different conversation. I just want to set the expectations of what we think that people should expect out of this club next year and an additional starting center back seems like a very reasonable place to start. But I think there are other things that we should expect about. [00:22:20] Speaker C: Yeah, if, if you back your coach and give him a chance to take a stride forward, you should expect the team to move into the standings between third and fifth. Right. You finished one spot. Well, you finished the seventh. You were right ahead of the 89 game. Right. And you did that without the DP at the end of the season. So if you give the guy a dp, if you give the guy a center back, he should his team, you should have an expectation that his team should move into the three to five window in the standings, not one to two in the West. You're not going to crack those very elite of the elite at the very top of the thing. You're not going to but you're going to be able to get up there to get yourself into the conversation for home field, you know, for a round or two, maybe even depending on how your results go in the playoffs. So that's the expectation. If that does not happen, it'll be because the technical staff fails to give them the players they need or they don't do any. Either they get the wrong players or they don't do it at all. You don't add anything and just bring back Ibiaga. You're going to go backwards. But if you do the right things, you should take a step forward to be third to fifth and you should hold them to that expectation. [00:23:27] Speaker A: I would think the other thing to keep in mind with, with the expectation is this year was very much, there was a top five and there wasn't everyone else. So you're looking at, does Seattle fall off? Does Minnesota drop away from where they were? Does Vancouver fall off the face of the earth? There's, there's only so much wiggle room. You know, you can, you can tag on the end of that top five, you can turn it into a top six. But yeah, it's like you say you're not really, you're not necessarily getting like top two. And even top four is a difficult aim with the way that the Western. [00:24:04] Speaker C: Conference is, or remember the west wasn't as good this year as the east in terms of, you know, raw points. So like, what I mean by third to fifth is like you should see yourself ahead of the Austin's, Portland's, the RSLs and the San Jose. Those guys shouldn't even be in your ballpark. You should be in the mix with. Dan says it's maybe not San Diego, you know, maybe not lafc, but like, you know, Vancouver with Mueller, really, really good. But you should be able to compete with Seattle, Minnesota and getting into that next level like every week. That should be your level of competition, where you should think it should be. If you give the guy the support he needs, that's your expectation. You know, don't expect to be sitting first or second on a 60 point season, you know, or a 70 point or a 74 point season or whatever. But if you get into the high 50s and reduce your goals against by 10, you know, you'd be talking about maybe getting a home field game. [00:24:55] Speaker B: Okay, so the next expectation, if the first one is get a center back, that's as good as the guy you got this year. The next expectation is the team should go out and get another quality dp. [00:25:08] Speaker C: Yes. [00:25:09] Speaker B: So you have two MUSA level dps. [00:25:12] Speaker C: Well, it won't probably MUSA level because you don't have another 10 million. I don't think. I think you have another 12 for Evander. Well, that's true. Yeah. So it would just depend on the value of the player. It's more important to find the right player than it is to just say, I'm gonna spend this money no matter what. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Sure. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, for sure. [00:25:30] Speaker C: The, the expectation is like, you know, where we'll learn a lot about their mentality is that they just make packs in the dp that'll tell us everything. [00:25:37] Speaker B: But I think I got to tell you this. The idea that Paxton Palm McCall, as much as I love him and you know, I'm a non family member president, whatever that is, that joke I make, the idea of him being a DP on this team seems unacceptable. [00:25:52] Speaker C: It is. But he's the only salary left that would qualify. You know, you're assuming that legit's gone. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but that feels like such a give up. [00:26:02] Speaker C: Oh yeah, 100%. It does. It totally does. That would definitely fall into the holding, you know, pat category. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:09] Speaker C: Like super budget conscious category. That, that's what I mean, like that'll tell you a lot about their mentality is whether that's the choice. It shouldn't be the choice, but it. [00:26:17] Speaker A: Could be because you know, there's a, there's a scenario where they, they could get a bunch of kaiks and Iraqi days and they just have no choice but to say, right, well he's the only guy that you know isn't. Isn't that TAM level? [00:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. It may be that when you, if you just target the player you need, it may be that, that it doesn't automatically come with a DP salary. It may be just that mechanic wise it makes more sense. So, you know, nothing happens in a vacuum. And Dan's right, it may be that it's just that is the best way to handle Paxton's. Reducing Paxton's number. But yeah, it's not fun, it's not sexy, but it might be. [00:26:56] Speaker B: I know that there's a scenario where you get a bunch of like really crafty young Brazilian guys that have played a few professional games for a lot of. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Specifically. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that that might sound cool as a concept, but in Major League Soccer, having quality dps that are chewing up minutes and scoring goals or being effective is a real thing and. [00:27:19] Speaker C: Well, let's look, let's look at this way. It depends on what you put, where you put your priority. If you go get a center back that's probably not a dp, well then you're thinking like, what's my next move? Do I want a pure 10 like Acosta was supposed to be, or do I. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Wait, hold up. Why, why does a second center back have to be a dp? Uruguay Day is arguably one of the best center backs in the league. And he's not a dp. [00:27:40] Speaker C: I said he doesn't have to be. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Oh, I thought you said probably. Oh, is not. Sorry. [00:27:44] Speaker C: The number of Foreign DPS that have worked out at center back is actually low because you tend to overpay. Usually you want somebody more just like your G day younger be that price. [00:27:53] Speaker A: Point there on the older side. [00:27:55] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:27:57] Speaker A: All right. [00:27:57] Speaker C: So then after that you have the DP spot available, but then you think okay, what's my most important thing? And this is where you have to ask questions like maybe it's a, you know, really good six. Like a guy that's like a top, you know, an MLS beck. Excuse me, MLS next level MLS best 11, level 6. I don't want that sort of thing. Right. Instead of going with Romero who's really slow or Cake is really young and inexperienced. Maybe that's the answer is I need a really great dude right there and then I'm playing with Capis and Palm Call, you know, or, or whoever else is in that mix slightly in front of him and that. But that a dp. Sorry, a six like that isn't necessarily a dp because you can look at some guys around the league, Jaco Chara, you know, first, just for example, not a DP. You know, you don't need to necessarily spend DPs costing money because they're usually in splashy really sexy positions. So like if you say to yourself, oh, I want a cap is pomicle double pivot and then I want to go get a 10. Well, tens cost a lot of money. That's where your 12 million dollar vendors are coming in now. It's got to be a dp. So it's like you don't go get a DP just cause. And that's where Palm co owners the equation or whatever. It's just you're what makes the most sense. [00:29:10] Speaker A: You're ruining my dream of a DP left back to replace Bernie. [00:29:14] Speaker C: Yeah, right. I mean, I mean I suppose people could do that, but that would be a horrible idea. But I was thinking more of like do you want a pure 10 or do you want like a wing? Like a. Well, they've got some wings they can run. That's not if they're going to go wing. Maybe it's more like a false swing like Will use when he was North Texas coach, you know. And then some things come into play of a different kind of player like Velasco would have been ideal for that job if he had stuck around. Obviously you're not going to go back and get him, but that kind of player, that's not necessarily a pure wing like Ronald Damos was in the past or like any of these other flying, slashing wings you can think of that we've had here would be. So, you know, you can have a lot of fun with those questions once you get past the baseline. And that's where you can get into interesting discussions about whether it would even need to be a DP or not based on the quality player you need. [00:30:01] Speaker B: What, what those positions cost in terms of expectations. Are there. Is there another position of absolute. Must have. We need a center back. We also must get X. [00:30:17] Speaker C: No, really, after that you get into, you know, what, what kind of style you want to be, you know, and then you get into questions. [00:30:25] Speaker B: But you feel like even with the current roster, Quill has enough quality in his roster to play all those positions well. [00:30:34] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I, I think he would go get something, but it's not obvious which one it would be, right? Like, it depends on whether you think what positions you think are good enough or what positions you think you need and what, what tactic you're going to use. You know, like, like if you are in a double pivot, then you don't need a truly dominant 6. If you don't, if you're going 4, 2, 3 1, you might instead need a really dominant amazing 10, right? Or if you're going 4, 3, 3, you don't need a 10 at all. Maybe I need a wing that can absolutely provide like seven goals and, and five assists. Or maybe I need a guy, a wing that can false swing so it changes all your. Everything you're doing in terms of like what you might go after based on what you think your tactic should be. The bottom line for me is like after you do the center back you have, then you then look at two things. Number one is the Farrington Musa combo, which is the best the team looked. So you want to keep that in some capacity, right? So then that, that affects how you look at the front three in whatever shape. If you're going on 4, 3, 3, which we think will. And then you look at things like the midfield, do you. Do you have enough pacs? And health is a huge one. It's like. But do you have enough quality next to campus? You know, do you need a double pivot or do you need a real six or something like that? [00:31:56] Speaker B: So let me, I just want to. Let's talk about that for a second. And Dan, I really want your, your thoughts and insights on this as well. But if you think about all the available center mids you have that play in those positions between Pedrinho and Patricson, Delgado Capis, Palmacall, Romero and Kaik. Am I forgetting anybody else? There's six guys there. [00:32:19] Speaker C: Diego Garcia, but that's not one for now. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Okay, do you and I. This is a hard question asked, but I'm just going to ask it. Are any of those six guys starter center midfielders for a top five MLS team currently today? [00:32:35] Speaker C: Well, if Palm calls healthy him. [00:32:38] Speaker B: See, I am really surprised we're even having a conversation about 2026 where Paxton Palmichol is playing much less starting for this team. [00:32:49] Speaker C: I know. [00:32:50] Speaker B: I mean, I'm not even. I'm of the opinion that he's not even that. That he probably won't be playing soccer next year. [00:32:59] Speaker C: That's a fair take, but there's also people inside the club that think he's a starter 30 games. So I'm not saying Paxton think he's a starter. I'm worried about it. I'm with you. I'm worried about him playing at all. What it comes down to is, remember, this is season two with Quill, and so you. You've. You've had a baseline season where you've stopped a lot of the really horrible things and you kind of know where you are. So now it's like, what best way do I go forward? And some of that depends on, like, what do I have that can get me up there? Like, Cap is a pretty good player. Do you have time to let Kaik grow in as a pure six, or do you want to let him sit the bench a little bit more? You know, Ramiro is a pure six. Maybe not so great, but in a double pivot, maybe that's okay. You know what I mean? Like Delgado, perfectly surfable 10. We saw him fill in for Lucio Costa pretty nicely, you know, even as a sort of a false wingy kind of 10 there at the end of the season. Was that good enough in Quill's mind? So now I can focus more on, like, what do I got to put next to Capus, because, you know, I don't think you want to go. Cap is cake. Like we saw with Ramirez wing back. That's not. If you're going back four, you don't have the Ramiro wingback problem, you know. So is Capis, Romero kite good enough? Probably not. Like, so that's where Palm comes in the equation. Are you rolling the dice and risking waiting to see if Palm call can come good the first half of the season, and then in the middle if he doesn't, you do something. You know, these are questions that only the front office can answer and we're going to have to kind of see what they're doing. You know, my bet, my bet is that they will start the season with Palm Call and hope that see what happens if, see if Palm Call cap is a double pivot will fly. You know, you can go into the season with Delgado as a 10. I think that's not a great idea. I'd prefer if you're going to go double pivot, I think you spend money at the 10 because then you can get away with a Musa Farrington and something else up top. You know, maybe it's sort of a soft, you know, underneath winger, a false winger like he liked to do back in North Texas, you know. So it's hard to predict when Quill spent the last half of the season solving the bleeding and not playing the way he really wants to play. So it's super hard to predict outside of the obviously clear center back which way he's going to go. So we kind of need to wait a little bit and see. [00:35:16] Speaker A: So I was offering my little world thinking, man, I wonder if Bernie could be that kind of underneath full swing. [00:35:23] Speaker C: I I Bernie being a pure lefty like on that side, him coming in on his right foot is not a very good idea. He doesn't do that very well. Yeah, it's more likely a Pedrinho could be that false swing. You know, I think Quill likes him a little bit. But the bottom line is, I think, like, if you're willing to go double pivot, then you would spend money at either the 10 or that false swing scenario. The false swing scenario plays more into your hands if you're going to go with a single pivot, like if you're going to try Kai or try Romero underneath Kappis Paxton, then a false wing really plays into your hands to slide underneath Musa Farrington. That's kind of where I feel like my gut tells me Cole might try starting out Romero. Keat combo is a six and see how it goes with Capis Paxton. Just go spend some money on a false swing to slide underneath Luciferington. [00:36:13] Speaker B: I got a lot, I just got a lot of questions about that group of six in the center of the midfield. I just don't think there's a standout player in that group. I love Capus. I think Capus is great. But Kappas is a guy who's slightly above dude, if that makes sense. Kaika's got a lot of potential, but man, he's young and as we called him, the golden retriever of the team, and Romero is now going to be a season older. So that's a problem. [00:36:40] Speaker C: I think of it this way, like, you know, again, if you get the center back, then you're quote, unquote, solving the defensive problem, right? Then you're going to feel good about your defense. Whether you have Nolan at left back, you have more, or Giovanni at right back, you're feeling pretty good about that. Your moose of Farrington feels pretty good. Maybe you'll get one player there. Now you're feeling pretty good about that. So you're sort of going into the season with like, okay, my next big question is, how's the midfield going to work? Okay, that's phase two of a build. This is season two of a build. This is phase two. Like, what's the next chunk that needs to be repaired? Is Paxton good enough? What are my problems in there? Is Kai too young? Is, remember, too old? Like, we need to get some answers with that. Okay. You know, we know some of those answers, but we don't know those answers with a repaired back four under a Musa Farrington combo, you know, and. And many, many, many questions about Palm's actual viability, which could be zero or it could be MLS best. [00:37:36] Speaker A: I mean, even further down the roster, you've got a couple of questions. Like you obviously just mentioned Nolan Norris. Does he shake out as a left back? Does he shake out as a center back? Because we've kind of seen a little bit in the. In a back three. Does he kind of go back to the, you know, playing as a six, Carl Sante? If they pick up his option, does he come back offline and, you know, is he now an MLS player? Is he, you know, still more of a USL championship guy? [00:38:06] Speaker C: Don't forget, they invested in Deetson, too, so they're going to want to try and factor him in some. [00:38:10] Speaker B: I'm sorry, who's this Deetson you referred to? [00:38:13] Speaker A: Guy who is, I guess, going back to like the, you know, what does the next season. There's a whole look like there. You've. You've got an out and out winger, or I guess he's more of a wing forward. Yeah. [00:38:26] Speaker B: Does anybody know if he's actually any good? [00:38:29] Speaker A: I mean, that's all right for Haiti. [00:38:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:33] Speaker A: That feels kind of pissed. All over the US national team at Jerry World for 45 minutes. [00:38:41] Speaker B: Yeah, everybody did that, though. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:43] Speaker C: Look, when you're a bad team and you're trying to get to the top, you're gonna have questions in year two of your build, like, you don't have all the answers yet, I don't think. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:38:50] Speaker C: Okay. This is a winter where, you know, you 100 know, I need to do X and Y and then it's the. After that, it's like, let's just see how it goes and see what happens, you know. [00:39:00] Speaker B: All right. Before we move on, why don't you just repeat for everybody what the calendar looks like moving forward in terms of what they should expect. Expect in terms of when moves may or may not happen. [00:39:08] Speaker C: Yeah, the, the team was off last week, as Dan had told us was the case, and they. So, like, that's why I just did my predictions on contract moves. It should happen this week. We should see exit interviews in the. Within the first couple of days. So maybe as early as Wednesday. Maybe it's more like Friday. But, like, that's when we're expecting them to kind of happen. You're supposed to do them relatively quickly after you get eliminated. You're not supposed to linger around and then you're going to have your myriad of stupid MLS waivers and reentries and garbage like that, none of which mean anything. Mid December, you're going to get your draft where Dallas will, you know, in the first round pick a player that will stick on the team and then they'll pick some players that'll play for North Texas. That's when you'll also start to, you'll get a homegrown signing or two, possibly. I'll have a list of who I think that'll be coming up and then that's it. The, the season starts in, quote, unquote, early February. So we're pretty confident campus opening basically like the end of the first week of January, camp for next season starts. So it's, it's going to be quick there. It's actually a pretty tight turnaround, relatively speaking, since, you know, you're talking about drafting in mid December and then we're playing like three weeks later, you know, not including, including the Christmas break in there, the holiday break in there. [00:40:26] Speaker B: So with the early start to the season means an even earlier introduction and reveal of the new home shirt home kit. [00:40:36] Speaker C: Can't wait to see Dan's mock up. Pretty jazz. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Does that mean we'll get an even earlier Dan Crook mock up? [00:40:44] Speaker C: We should. [00:40:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Why wouldn't we? [00:40:46] Speaker B: Can we have that by Thanksgiving, Dan? [00:40:48] Speaker A: No. [00:40:51] Speaker C: No. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:40:53] Speaker B: Like, can I, can I negotiate a date of reveal of the mock up with you right now here live on the podcast? [00:41:02] Speaker A: Okay. I have no idea what my schedule is going to look like. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:06] Speaker A: All right. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Well, there you go. There's some 30s plus minutes of FC Dallas talk for 2026 and it wasn't that depressing. [00:41:14] Speaker C: No, I'm actually really excited about what could happen. You know, if they do some good moves, they can really make some ground, I think. Couple good moves. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Speaking of depressing, Dallas Trinity lost again at the Cotton bowl and in front of what appeared to be an incredibly sparse crowd. Boy, boy howdy. And where are they in the standings now? They're sixth. [00:41:39] Speaker C: Eight out of eight. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Eight out of nine. Oh, that is. [00:41:45] Speaker C: Right. So in this game in particular, they've the, the new keeper, Riley Foster has not been as good as the old keeper and they, so they swapped in Sam Estrada for this game and she proceeded to have an absolute nightmare in gold and goal. So then the first five minutes she got pressed and basically cleared the ball right into the feet of the striker who put it right. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:42:09] Speaker C: So one of the. And then 20 minutes later, a long range, soft long range shot went into her hands and threw her hands and right in the goal. Just a catastrophic muff. [00:42:21] Speaker B: That sounds like when I get that, that sounds like when I have to go in goal because our keeper didn't show up on a Tuesday night thing. [00:42:27] Speaker C: And it looked about like that. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just, I mean the goal situation, I'm like, just sign Evan osteen, the solar 17 year old and get it over. [00:42:35] Speaker A: He's at college. I can't get a. [00:42:37] Speaker C: But she's already in college. Dang it. I was gonna be a Julian eye stones type move. Yeah. Keeper's bad. The, the bottom line for Trinity right now is that the, the keeper situation has not, is not great. The couple of defenders they've added have not been very good. They're at a minus 10 goal differential, which is, you know, a combination of bad defending and bad scoring. They lost Deb Aberdeen out of midfield, who was probably their second or third best player player. They lost. You know, Sam Mazda got recalled and they replaced her with Lexi Misimo who's played four games and has not played since. You know, they're just a mess in so many phases of the game. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Like they also rely. They relied so heavily on Amber Wisner who's, you know, naturally declining in age. [00:43:25] Speaker C: It's, you know, the last two or three games they've played her high trying to get, you know, anything going because she's definitely their best player. That just exposes the defense anymore even more. So they're, they're, they have problems in all Three phases of the game. Which is funny because at the beginning of the year they look like they had a lot of good pieces to come back but then it wasn't a lot of some of those pieces fell off. Even the pieces that came back that had been playing really well like bolts on the out outside, bolts falling off and not producing, you know, uber Gago again into her mid-30s, not producing as much. Silly straw looks amazing but she can't do it by herself. You know. [00:43:59] Speaker A: Correct me if I'm wrong, Ali Thornton, top scorer last year, still hasn't scored. [00:44:03] Speaker C: I don't know if she hasn't scored or maybe she has one or two but she's not seeing any of the ball. They're not getting balls into her at all. And she's definitely not producing anywhere near the Golden Boot kind of chase. I don't want to say it's zero but it's definitely way down there. [00:44:17] Speaker A: It's basically Cameron Lancaster and Celie Strawn. So everyone needs to be about 4 foot and then this team will be fantastic. [00:44:26] Speaker B: Well it's a bad, it's, it's not a good. I mean obviously we know things can turn in this, this league because there were teams that were top of the table this time last year and ended up not even make that. Didn't Brooklyn fail to make the playoff last year? Weren't they first and they ended up out of the play, out of the playoff picture. [00:44:41] Speaker A: They were such a weird case. They got rid of this their sport indirect award. They lost their coach. They, the. I think the general manager ended up like being the coach in name because he had, he was qualified to coach but wasn't actually coach but isn't it. [00:44:58] Speaker B: But I do wonder because I don't know much about this and you guys follow this way closer than I do but there's always been this weird thing going on with the, the GM Chris Petrocelli having to now be the, the manager of the team when he's openly telling everybody I don't want to do this, we've got to go find. And here we are almost to the halfway point of the season and he's still, still the manager of a team that's in eighth place. [00:45:21] Speaker C: Well they said they once, once they got to the season they said we're just going to go with Chris until the mid season because that's when they'll be in their mid season break when the NWSL seasons are have ended and the college seasons have ended and they can find players more coaches available, more. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Players and more players. [00:45:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, right. So the stats I'm looking at, Dan, they have six goals and Thornton has one. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Will Chris Pestrocelli the GM fire Chris Petrocelli the manager? [00:45:46] Speaker C: I think he will in a heartbeat if he can find himself a manager. Yeah. It's funny, I joke that Chris Petrosolia the GM went out and got these players and Chris Presley, the manager's not playing them. It's kind of weird. [00:45:57] Speaker B: It is weird. [00:45:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:58] Speaker B: They have Spokane next and a lot of home games since they were on the road a lot. [00:46:03] Speaker C: So yeah, they got a bunch of home games in the next stretch. So hopefully they could get better. But you know, with, with and hopefully some more people at the Cotton bowl that wasn't going to help him any. They need some help big time. You know, the bottom line is when you use, when you lose, when you're missing, you're by far your highest paid player. And your player that was on loan, that was maybe your second best player. You out of the midfield, you're in trouble. You try and patch in some defensive pieces that are just okay, you know, the bottom line is the midfield is the worst part and then the keeper change has not been as outstanding. Raleigh Foster's got some potential, but so far she's not playing anywhere near like that Cuber did last year. So they need some work. [00:46:42] Speaker A: Oh, I was gonna say they're just in different stages of career. Right. You know, Maddie White was, you know, first year out of college loaned. She's back in NWSL. Riley Foster kind of gone through the WSL. Gone down to WSL 2 after the, the neck break and back break and everything else. And you know, this is kind of probably the level. [00:47:16] Speaker C: Okay, very good. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Well, let's real quick, Atletico Dallas, not much is going on. Two things I'll bring up. They sent a press release out today announcing a partnership with a revenue. How do we call this leading revenue maximizer in the sports industry called Playfly, which is going to be their key partner in ticket sales and trying to build their strategy on how they're going to sell tickets for this thing. Play Fly is an organization that's quite popular around a lot of the college teams and you know, it's a lot of analytics and AI stuff and we'll see where it goes from there. But they made a big deal out of that today. [00:48:05] Speaker A: It's a league partner, so aren't they like supposed to use them anyway? [00:48:10] Speaker B: Well, I've never heard of them. The price, the press release today made it sound like it was something specific, as is the ticketing solution for usl. But there's something unique that they're going to do with Play Fly because the article that I read in the morning news today made it sound like they were going to be hiring people, people locally for this particular partnership to help with the ticket sales part of it. So maybe that's just a fancy way of saying this is how we're gonna hire our salespeople and we're gonna use the Playfly platform to sell tickets or whatever that is. I'm sure we'll learn more as everything goes forward, but that's the first thing. The other thing that popped up on social media this afternoon was I, I don't know what this is. It's. It just is where it all began. And then it puts the date of November 17, 2025. And it's a 10 second video clip of what appears to be the gravel pit or cement factory or whatever. It was the original Atletico Dallas video with the kid, the guys playing soccer in a gravel pit, it appears to be. And then the logo across the scenes is the site. So is this them announcing a training ground? [00:49:23] Speaker A: Are they going back to Garland? [00:49:27] Speaker C: Yeah, who knows, man? Very mercurial, obfuscated release. [00:49:34] Speaker B: Well, that's where we're, that's where we're at on Atletic. That's the best I got for you about Athletico Dallas. [00:49:39] Speaker A: They're in that hard position of announcing too early and having to try and keep the name out there and stretch a lot of stuff. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Oh yeah, for sure. We've said this all along. How, you know, they've, they're the Runway. They've given themselves to launch this thing is so long. How they keep everybody excited about this is interesting. And, and we gotta get, we get the AB test because Fort Worth is just sitting behind a closed door just waiting and just, you know, providing themselves a much shorter Runway whenever they decide to go ahead and announce their deal. So it'll be interesting, it'll be fun to watch which one has more success with the other. I think Atletico has a much bigger task at hand because they've got to figure out how to make the Cotton bowl experience something fun to do and exciting and full. And there was a lot of that in the article. I don't know, Buzz, I don't know if you read the article in the morning news today. They, they talked about that in a lot of ways. And they talked about the fact that there was a quote in there about they look, we've just got to we got to worry about the people that are the 2 million live in Dallas proper that can be our audience. We don't have to worry about Frisco or being versus FC Dallas. They've got their own people, you know, 30 minutes up the road. [00:50:56] Speaker A: So I think that's an incredibly short sighted quote. There are probably the majority of FC Dallas. I mean, okay, so from my experience like back in support a group days, the majority of membership came from either Dallas county or Denton County. Collin county is not really, you know. [00:51:16] Speaker B: You'Re talking about for FC Dallas. [00:51:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of like so saying, hey, you know, the, the quote of, you know, they've got their own fan base 40 miles up the road. That's. That's not true. You know, if you're, if you're a soccer fan that treats soccer as a live sporting event and not a TV show, there's a good chance you, you have or have had an affinity to. Oh, sorry. In it specifically in the city of Dallas have or have had an affinity of some kind to FC Dallas. So treating it like it's just a not non factor isn't actually true. You are still competing for entertainment dollars. And honestly they shouldn't just be focused on people who live in the boundaries of the city of Dallas. I live in Richardson. You want my dollars? Buzz lives in Ireland. You want Buzz's dollars. You want, you know, you want to maximize your revenue. There's, there's 8 million people in, in a fairly small drive around. You shouldn't just be focusing on the, you know, 1.6 or 2 million or wherever it is in the city of Dallas itself, which in itself is big enough, you know, we talk about, you know, the, the whole 635 thing. People, you know, people north of 635 in Dallas, you could be a street below 635. And you think to them that you're in a completely different country. Sometimes there's a lot more to focus on. Just this one boundary, the strategy of. [00:52:54] Speaker B: How they make this thing work. I think they're probably still figuring it out at this point, I assume. [00:53:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I would think so. [00:53:02] Speaker B: And if they announce a training site, I mean so if this, the site thing 10 ends up being some sort of announcement of a training center and that is in a very specific place, I think that will also give us a big indication or clue as to what their strategy in terms of ticket. [00:53:17] Speaker C: Sales are going to be. [00:53:19] Speaker B: But based on what I've seen so far, my read on the situation is is that they're going to try to maximize the audience that FC Dallas is largely forsaken, which is the Latino audience, the East Dallas audience. You know that that whole section of people that tend to be kind of glomming on to it. Because anytime I see any kind of Atletico Dallas activation or social media stuff or things that they're doing, like there was the. There was something this weekend. It just looks like that's the audience of people that young Gen Z Latino, mostly Latino audience that seems really into this idea of a club called Atletico. [00:54:00] Speaker C: It definitely has seemed to. From the responses I've get of people like if I wear a shirt for one or the other, I definitely get more response from a lot younger people for Athletico, you know, recognition of that brand. Their social media works. You know what's more about the Instagrams, Are we gonna. Are we gonna end up in a. [00:54:18] Speaker B: Situation where FC Dallas is your grandpa's team? [00:54:20] Speaker C: Is that where we're coming? [00:54:21] Speaker B: Is that we're headed? [00:54:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:23] Speaker B: And we're all the Grandpas. [00:54:24] Speaker C: We're all 55, so. Right. But you and I are. [00:54:28] Speaker A: I think we're going to end up with three teams that don't get amazing attendances for vastly different reasons. [00:54:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:34] Speaker A: Is what it's going to come down to. [00:54:38] Speaker C: For Dallas. [00:54:39] Speaker A: Trinity that. That was including Dallas. [00:54:43] Speaker C: Oh, I thought it's talking about the Fort Worth deal. [00:54:46] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. I'm talking about specifically the three Dallas. [00:54:49] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. [00:54:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean Fort Worth, we don't know enough about to know what their approach is. I just think, I think there's three ownership groups that don't necessarily understand their market. And you know, when, when there are quotes that come out, it's a lot of like we know the situation without actually knowing the situation. And sometimes those, those times say less. Don't. [00:55:16] Speaker C: Stop talking while you're winning. [00:55:17] Speaker B: Dan Crook, Professional marketers advice. Shut up. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Honestly. [00:55:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. All right, let's move on. We don't have anything. So that's Trinity, that's Atletico. North Texas didn't do anything. So set them all. Yeah. The season Web blue. Yeah, whatever. Now I think the fun conversation is the news that happened this week about. Is this the conclusion of the drama around Texoma and Salina? Is this officially the. [00:55:48] Speaker A: The. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Okay. [00:55:49] Speaker C: This is official. Yep. [00:55:51] Speaker B: Okay. Did somebody try to pull a fast one on us, Buzz? [00:55:55] Speaker C: I don't think they tried to pull a fast one on us because I, I had a laugh with Ben about how it was the worst kept secret in soccer. [00:56:02] Speaker A: They pulled a slow one. [00:56:04] Speaker C: Yeah, clearly, like. Well, not all. All those leaks were them, by the way. A couple of those leaks were somebody else. And they were like, what the hell. The email leak was them. And the funny story about the email leak was that the four people that have access to that email account were all in a meeting together when their phones all lit up with that email and they were like, how'd that even happen? It was like a bug of some kind. But they laughed about it in hindsight. So the genesis of the situation is that Texoma fc, that brand is staying in Texoma and is dropping down a division and there's a new application of their USL1 license in SL called Rodeo SC. And that's the genesis of it. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop. Don't bury the lead here, Buzz. There is a new soccer team, another professional team coming to town that will play in Salina. And I just want to again, be very clear. It is going to be called what, sir? [00:57:01] Speaker C: Rodeo Scott. See, Rodeo Soccer Club. Don't look at me like that. I didn't name it. [00:57:08] Speaker B: Okay? I'm not saying it's a bad name. It's. It's an interesting name. It's very. It has though. It. It's a very minor league. It's like Savannah Banana Slugs kind of name. [00:57:19] Speaker A: No, no, because if you live outside of Savannah, you know where they're from. That's the difference. [00:57:24] Speaker C: Yeah, the. The. I think the takeaway from those guys with the Texoma deal. Deal is the, the idea of hyper fixation on locale, of local. These local rivalries. One of the reasons why they dropped that franchise down was to play McKinney, to play Denton, to play Fort Worth. They want to play local. And I think that idea permeated to the name Rodeo S.C. that they don't. I know, Dan, what you're going to say, and I think you're probably right, that outside of this area, no one's going to know where that is. You know, so if you're trying to sell nationally or internationally that you. You care, but I'm not sure that in USL one that they care. They want to, they want to play up this hyper localization, you know, and they were. They're. They're calling it North Dallas, North Texas and they're being adamant that it's, you know, to them the narrative is that this is the. Not that the Texoma is still Texoma. This is something new. [00:58:12] Speaker B: Is Hitch involved in this at all? [00:58:14] Speaker C: No. [00:58:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:58:15] Speaker C: Nope. You know, I'm sure that they've talked to him. You know, all those USL guys talk to each other and certainly in the ones in the USL too. I'll take notes from Hitch on what he's doing. Like, these guys sided Ben Watson side of McKen multiple times is like the model. And, and Pines of Hearts of Pines too, you know, which is USL 1. So that's, that's what they're looking for is, you know, I think they look at the name Hearts of Pines and. [00:58:38] Speaker A: Thought, well, that Portland Hearts of P. [00:58:41] Speaker C: Is it actually listed as Portland or is it just listed as Hearts of Pines? I didn't know. But anyway, you know, I think that they're looking at that. You know, I'm not trying to tell you that Rodeo SC is a great name, but I think that they don't care about anything beyond the. The activation of the immediate local audience. You know, and getting those 4 to 5,000 people in the stands is the goal. [00:59:01] Speaker A: You know, they could have just called it insert name here, Soccer Club. [00:59:07] Speaker C: Well, you know, at least it's not just Salina sc. [00:59:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it'll stand out. [00:59:11] Speaker A: That would honestly be better. Or Collin County Soccer Club. Something that people can actually relate to. Because if you say, where's the rodeo? It's in Mesquite. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I get that. It. It's different than what we've been seeing. And I've been championing soccer clubs, not just defaulting to city name and fc, you know, suffix. So the fact that they are trying something different and something that is culturally relevant to that particular area. I know Salina isn't the known destination for the rodeo in this part of town, but it's obviously still part of the culture and the history of the Salina of that area. So if they're successful in marketing it, Dan, everybody will figure out that the soccer club called Rodeo plays in Salina. [01:00:03] Speaker A: Okay. There's a way you can play around branding. What was the team that FC Dallas lost to in the playoffs? [01:00:10] Speaker B: What, Vancouver? [01:00:12] Speaker A: No, they lost to Whitecaps fc, who as an alternate name use Vancouver White Caps. Same way Seattle Sounders is actually sound as fc. Portland Timbers is actually Timbers fc. [01:00:24] Speaker B: So your, your beef is that they didn't call it the Salina Salina Rodeo Soccer. [01:00:28] Speaker A: No, I just don't. I just don't think there was any thought put into the, into that identity. Because you're talking about a small town that's known more for its history and rail than anything else, and you're trying to relate it to a rodeo that has the city's name but is actually held on South Fork Ranch down the road. [01:00:56] Speaker B: It just, I think. [01:00:58] Speaker A: And also Salinas. And you know, most people in and around Salina, it's. They're not, you know, cowboys, Western bred. [01:01:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I get it. [01:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah. It's just. [01:01:09] Speaker B: It just seems The Salina of 2025 is a very different Salina than 1995. By the way, I'll tell you, this is a lifelong resident of the area. This Salina has changed a lot in 20 years. [01:01:21] Speaker A: I mean, Christ, even the time that I've lived here, they just used to be a subway. And then the rem, you know, the hopes and dreams that the tollway would make it up north eventually. [01:01:33] Speaker B: But, Dan, they gotta. They just gotta attack, attract attention. And giving themselves a different name like rodeo will help do that because people. Look, we're talking about the fact that like, they named it this thing, and this is what we've spent now 10 minutes talking about. So I'm sure people will have fun with it, huh? Yeah. [01:01:51] Speaker C: We are sick girls. [01:01:53] Speaker A: They're looking for the people that have spent the last couple of years in the beer garden and Rollertown before they move to Frisco. Those are the people that ain't gonna care. [01:02:02] Speaker B: Okay, here. Here's the problem with rodeo is that I think it sets a expectation that you are really going to dig into that as a brand, which is a very western, cowboyish kind of thing. And so everything they do moving forward better be reflective of rodeo as a image and brand. Does that make sense? [01:02:26] Speaker A: They'd better have children trying to cling on sheep and all sorts of shit. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Well, yes. They should have sheep races and rodeos and lassos and somebody that looks. Maybe they can get rowdy to retire from the cowboys and he can go over and be their mascot and get a lasso. [01:02:44] Speaker A: You know, there's a way to do it. I mean, they're always. There's going to be a hindrance in that. There's not a ton of leeway to have like a ton of western teams. Right. And you've got the Dallas Cowboys, you've got the Texas Rangers, you've got Fort Worth for Caro is more locally and at level. [01:03:01] Speaker B: I'm just. [01:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm just. [01:03:04] Speaker B: I'm confused why they're breaking this company, this thing up in. They've got a team already now. They've relegated themselves into usl too. And that's still Texoma, I assume. Correct, Buzz? [01:03:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:03:16] Speaker B: So is this. Is this rodeo thing a wholly different venture and entity and club? [01:03:22] Speaker C: No, it's the new top club in their organization, they're building a pyramid. They already have like seven or eight youth teams. Tex Almond FC is now the USL 2 team of Rodeo SC. [01:03:34] Speaker B: So what will the youth teams be referred to as? [01:03:37] Speaker C: I don't know, probably Rodeo sc. [01:03:39] Speaker A: Okay, probably. [01:03:39] Speaker C: Maybe, maybe both. Some of the ones in Texas might still be called Texoma. The ones down south might be called, you know, roadie. [01:03:46] Speaker A: So it'll depend and it makes sense to sort of not, not make texaima be a de facto reserve team and you know, and have teximer and Colin or whatever and separate the brands. [01:04:00] Speaker C: But it just same as North Texas SC is the feeder team for FC Dallas. It's the same thing. [01:04:07] Speaker B: I know, I mean we, we keep bringing this up that I don't know how all of this soccer is going to work in this area. I know there's 8 million people and. [01:04:16] Speaker C: Yeah, the only difference is that Texas almost now going to be the summer league college kids team like Kenny and like Denton are. So there's no professional link through but they're hoping of course that they're going to have kids come from their academy and then, and then go to play college ball and then come back and play for their Texas FC. [01:04:32] Speaker B: I know, but we have McKinney doing that already and they're already sucking up for 4,000, 5,000 ticket sales a week or every couple of weeks. Sure. [01:04:40] Speaker C: But like for example, if you talk to hitch about the McKinney marketing, it's hyper, hyper local. They only care about. They don't any, they don't own any rights outside of McKinney. They don't have. That's all they care about. So Salina I imagine will be the same way, just like Fort Worth. [01:04:54] Speaker B: But this is the same question I asked last time we brought this up. I agree that they hyper focus on it, but how many of those people are choosing to just go to the McKinney game or the Salina game or whatever it is and not go to Atletico Dallas or FC Dallas or whatever because now they've got an option. [01:05:13] Speaker C: Those teams don't give a shit about that. [01:05:15] Speaker B: I'm talking about how we're fracturing the audience of this Metroplex altogether when we. [01:05:21] Speaker C: Talk about Texoma feeding. [01:05:22] Speaker B: So I'm just, I'm just purely talking about the fact that we are adding so many options for everybody's soccer dollar in the Metroplex that there are going to be some percentage of people that are now McKinney, Cooper Chavers fans that have just decided I'm not Going to FC Dallas anymore. Why would I do that? This is a lot of fun. It's right around. I can walk to the stadium from my house kind of thing. [01:05:43] Speaker C: Well, this gets back to the idea that right now, of course Toyota stadium only holds 11,000 people. But you notice again, we've talked about this, that they didn't expand Toyota Stadium. It's going to be 22. [01:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, a slight. Yes, slightly. Yeah. [01:05:58] Speaker C: They're not expanding it. They're not trying to get a better, a bigger audience. They're trying to get an audience that will pay more money. Right. So those like they don't need to build. They've had, you know, was it now five seasons of straight of sellouts? [01:06:12] Speaker B: No, not. [01:06:13] Speaker C: They don't need more friends. Is it three? Whatever it is in their minds, they don't need more fans. They just need those people to come back and pay more money like they think they're going to. So like FC Dallas probably doesn't care if they've lost some fans in that part of the city. I don't think. [01:06:29] Speaker A: Okay, well, one thing to keep in one of that hyper, hyper focus thing. McKin is five times the size of Salina. [01:06:37] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm not saying this line that the road USC's picked the right strategy. [01:06:41] Speaker B: I have no idea. [01:06:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:06:42] Speaker C: Yeah. I just think that like keep in mind that no ML, no soccer league in the United States that I'm aware of, certainly not MLS makes a large percentage of their profit from television. Most of their profit still comes from nowhere does anymore. Right. So the most of their money for MLS teams comes from butts and seats and merch and stadium buy and prices and suites and all that crap. And that's where making their bet. They don't. I don't think they care about the greater DFW ratings on television now. I mean they probably do a little bit. Not nearly as much as they do is packing out that place at a much higher ticket price than anyone else in soccer is going to have because they're going to feel like they're fielding a better quality ticket. I'm sure that the Athletico is going to look at the Cotton bowl and say we got to get as many people from city of Dallas and from East Dallas and from South Dallas and those young hipsters as you talk about in the cotton most possible. You know, that's what you're going to care about. [01:07:37] Speaker A: I think the interesting thing with that is, you know, let's say USL does end up doing this D one thing, you know, MLS As a whole has got a at least five year head start until there's anything close to a comparable standard. So then at the end of that, like five years or whatever, it ends up being what happens then? Who's actually competing for a crowd then? And what's the, the strategy? [01:08:06] Speaker C: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what kind of money comes into usl, because right now, obviously you look at the Super League, for example, and how that compares to NWSL. Both claim to be Division 1, and certainly the money is vastly different. The people, the amount of money and. [01:08:17] Speaker B: The quality of the play is. Well, I know epic golf. [01:08:22] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a chicken or an egg. Like is play better because you have more money. Therefore you get better players or do better players come there because you have more money or because you have more fans, you're paying massive expansion fees. Atlanta just got one today. Was it today? 165 million. [01:08:35] Speaker A: Right. Also, the, the quality ownership groups, you know, the Atlanta one is Atlanta United, it is the Falcons. [01:08:41] Speaker C: So you're, you know, Dan's right. Like, just saying you're Division one doesn't necessarily mean you're equivalent. So it'll take years and years before we're going to know the answer to these questions, whether it really is going to be equivalent. Double Vision one competition or not. What's going to happen in the landscape? It's chaos, but you're right, it'll be fascinating. [01:08:59] Speaker B: Well, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, it's going to come down to who makes the most compelling product that people are attracted to for whatever reason. I mean, there's going to be a whole subset of people that are going to want to just do Atletico or whatever the Fort Worth thing is, because it's not mls. There are going to be people that want to just do MLS because it's clearly the superior product on field product. [01:09:23] Speaker C: As most people have told us this. There'll be people that'll pick the one. [01:09:26] Speaker B: That'S near them or the one that's new. Right. [01:09:29] Speaker A: There's also a bunch of people that's going to go to any one of those, expect to see the best soccer in the world, realize it's not that, and then just go, oh, screw this, I'm going to go watch La Liga on the tv. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Yes, I think the, I think the, the, the existence of the Euro Snob is going to continue. That's not. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, they are the actual worst. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there's going to be a subset of people that are just like none of this is good enough for my dollar. I'll just stay home and watch and pay for FUBO TV or whatever it. [01:10:00] Speaker C: Is or go to the movies or go to Six Flags or, you know, you're always competing for dollars these days. [01:10:06] Speaker B: Wow. Here we go. All right. Well, and next year is going to be a total cluster because the World Cup's going to break everything up and the MLS season is going to feel very meaningless and disjointed and we're. [01:10:18] Speaker C: How does MLS screw this up? That the World Cup's going to force a mid break and you didn't use that to flip your calendar. That you're going to wait till the next year and do another mid break and flip your calendar was funny. How did you miss that? [01:10:32] Speaker B: Well, we hinted at the Canadian championship last night that happened in that crazy snowstorm. And I'm going to assume most everybody that has watched has seen that clip of the winning bicycle kick or the icicle kick goal. Now, what I'm. What I'm curious to know is how many people know, know that that is. The kid that scored that goal is a former FC Dallas Academy and North Texas Soccer Club product, Mr. Rodriguez, who helped win USL1 not that long ago. [01:10:59] Speaker C: Everybody that follows us because we shared it. Yeah, David Rodriguez. Yeah, yeah. His brother Arturo was the MVP in the championship run at North Texas under Quill. And David was a big part of that team, too. And he's played for Mexico teams and, and Canadian really teams and all over the place. [01:11:15] Speaker B: It was funny. I was, I was doing another episode of a different podcast with my friend Lars, the Norwegian soccer journalist this morning, and we were talking about that game and I said, you know, it's the reason why that's interesting, Lars, is because it looks like MLS is about to switch to the FIFA calendar and play winter into spring. And he was like, that's the dumbest idea they'll ever make. Dumbest decision they'll ever make. I said, why? And he goes, because even in Norway, people don't. The reason why Norway plays the alternate calendar is that nobody wants to go sit in the Snow or in 30 degree, 20 degree or 0 Celsius weather to watch soccer. He was really surprised MLS was going to make that switch. [01:11:56] Speaker C: Well, I think there's only one or two MLS teams that are anti it and that's not enough. It's Minnesota and I don't even know. [01:12:04] Speaker A: It lines up for transfers and contracts. Yes, that's the important. [01:12:09] Speaker C: Montreal maybe doesn't like it. That's probably the other one. [01:12:11] Speaker A: Vancouver don't care because they're in Toronto. [01:12:14] Speaker B: New York, New England, Chicago, Philly. I mean, the number of. Number of markets that are going to be negative in Minnesota, Cincinnati, Columbus. [01:12:22] Speaker C: That's not what I said. What I said was the number of franchises that are actually against it is only like two. Ah, it's only Minnesota and Montreal, basically. [01:12:31] Speaker B: You mean the actual organizations, not the. [01:12:33] Speaker C: Yeah, the owners and the people making the decisions and the owners. [01:12:38] Speaker A: It'd be interesting to see how it affects recruitment in mls. [01:12:41] Speaker C: It'll be different for sure because. [01:12:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, obviously you've solved the travel issue, but now it's like, hey, do you want to go play in Montreal in December? [01:12:52] Speaker C: I think the Montreal owner said that if, if they flip the calendar, he would just sell his team to somebody in the States. [01:12:58] Speaker A: That would work out for literally everyone. [01:13:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:06] Speaker B: Well, those were some great scenes. It was fun to watch, but I'm sure that was a miserable experience. [01:13:10] Speaker C: I mean, a lot of people in Dallas are really excited about it. We don't like what's. [01:13:13] Speaker B: Well, we are because for 30 years. [01:13:15] Speaker C: 120 degree weather is worse. [01:13:16] Speaker B: For 30 years, nobody has cared two squirts about us having to suffer through MLS season summers in 100 degree weather. Let. Let the people in the north have to deal with their weather extremes for a while. Let us enjoy nice weather. [01:13:30] Speaker C: Thermometer hit 125. [01:13:31] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:32] Speaker C: Toyota Stadium. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:33] Speaker A: I'm just really excited to see what they have to do with all the midweek games from the postponement. Welcome to our world from the uk. [01:13:43] Speaker C: Heated surfaces. [01:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah. All right. [01:13:47] Speaker C: Underneath there. [01:13:48] Speaker A: Well, I mean, the problem is you can. The. The pitch is only part of it. You know, you've got to have the roads around the stadium. You've got to have the. Understand you've got a fan safety, player safety, official safety. You've got to have all the traffic and everything, which is an issue in and around Frisco anyway. And obviously Texas likes its ice storms. [01:14:08] Speaker C: That's something for like a day or two. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah. But then they don't grit the road. So it becomes a week. [01:14:13] Speaker B: I was trying to dismount once again because somehow we've gotten to an hour and 15 minutes. When we talked about maybe doing a 45 minute podcast at the beginning of this, but yet we've prattled on longer than normal. [01:14:24] Speaker C: You kept asking questions. That's not my fault. [01:14:26] Speaker A: Okay. [01:14:26] Speaker B: It is my fault. I accept. I. I take the blame. Good stuff. Okay, boys. [01:14:32] Speaker C: Beautiful. [01:14:32] Speaker B: Anything else we need to pimp before we go? Got an article you want to pimp. Oh, but what about Dan's football manager article? [01:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah, go squarely. Good man. Nice job on that. [01:14:42] Speaker B: Dan, will you come over and remind refresh my memory on how to play football manager, please? [01:14:47] Speaker A: You just move your mouse around and click, click. And then on the new one, the UI kind of sucks, so click like seven more times than you would have on any other one. [01:14:55] Speaker C: Dan felt like 100 local players that are in the game. [01:14:58] Speaker B: I. I read it. No, the article's great. Yes. And I realized I need to take Dan to lunch with my laptop and go, okay, refresh my memory how this works again, because I almost got divorced back in 1999. [01:15:08] Speaker A: Just. Just Martin Pars. He's the biggest football manager sicko in the area. Just take into lunch. [01:15:13] Speaker B: Okay. All right, I'll you show. Shoot him a. I'll shoot him a text. I'll slide into his DMs. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Dan. [01:15:23] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:15:24] Speaker B: Thank you, Buzzard. [01:15:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks for being here, everybody. [01:15:26] Speaker B: Yes. And thank you, DFW soccer Curious fan you. We will be back next week on another episode of 3rd Degree, the podcast. [01:15:36] Speaker A: Aka the soccer radio. [01:15:40] Speaker B: The 3rd Degree Nap. [01:15:41] Speaker A: I can't. [01:15:43] Speaker B: 3Rd Degree. The 3rd Degree N podcast. 3rd degree. The 3rd degree N podcast. 3rd degree. [01:15:52] Speaker C: 3Rd degree N podcast. [01:16:07] Speaker B: Sam.