3rd Degree the Podcast #317

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Third Degree the Third Degree NEP Podcast. Third Degree the Third Degree Nap Podcast. Third Degree the Third Degree Nap Podcast. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Third Degree the Third Degree Third Degree the podcast is brought to you by Wiggle Butt Soccer Club. That's right. For over 100 years, Wiggle Butt SC has brought you the same brand of chaotic and joyful soccer exemplified by 11 corgis kicking a ball around on a pitch. Wiggle Butt sc. For all your merchandise needs, check out the kick around shop at fourth Wall. Get yourself some Wigglebutt SC swag. Wigglebutt sc, the friendliest club in the world. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Well, hello there, DFW area soccer. Curious you. Welcome to another episode of Third degree the podcast. He is here. Bright and shiny F. Filled with vim and vigor it is, Dan Crook. [00:01:01] Speaker C: Filled with what now? [00:01:04] Speaker B: Vim and vigor. [00:01:06] Speaker C: Right you are then. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Okay. And your hero, My hero, everybody's Hero, Editor, Founder, 3rd Degree, the podcast, and the original soccer influencer himself, Buzz Carrot. Come in, Buzz. [00:01:18] Speaker A: Hey, fellas. Dan, I thought you'd be a little more hyped to have discovered this week that there's some Luton, Texas fans out there on the interweb I shared with you. [00:01:28] Speaker C: Yeah, we exist. There's. There's. There's a few Lutonians in. In Texas. [00:01:34] Speaker B: You're not the only Lutonian in the Dallas Fort Worth area. [00:01:37] Speaker C: No, there's actually a guy that lives like maybe 15 minutes from me. [00:01:42] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:01:43] Speaker A: They breed like rats. [00:01:44] Speaker B: But you didn't. Now, it's not like a guy you actually knew when you lived, Buzz. You guys. It's not somebody you knew back in Luton? No. Oh, okay. All right. [00:01:52] Speaker C: That would be weird. [00:01:54] Speaker B: That would be weird for sure. All right, well, very good. Well, we got lots to do today. We've got. While Dallas themselves were off, there were other results for local teams that we can plow through. I have a theory I would like to present to the. To the crew and maybe, if everybody is up for it, some Wiggle Butt news. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Peter, before we go, shout out to Kenny Cooper, who stopped by at the USA game and I said hello. We were like, oh, look, it's Kenny. And he came over and chatted with us a bit. Always a pleasure. Great guy. [00:02:29] Speaker B: I just want to say I really like watching soccer games in person with Buzz. You know why? [00:02:35] Speaker A: Why is that? [00:02:37] Speaker B: Because he doesn't talk, he doesn't hassle me, and he just watches the game and tweets a lot. [00:02:44] Speaker A: I don't tweet as much as I used to. I used to tweet A lot. But then now I just sort of try and focus more on the game even. [00:02:50] Speaker B: And I was bummed Dan, you didn't come down and join us for a while. [00:02:54] Speaker C: Ah, well, you know, it's. It's a long way up in the press box from there. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Dan was working. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Oh, who are you working for? Were you working for third or are you working for another outlet? I don't know. I'm asking. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Should rate the blog. [00:03:08] Speaker A: It's right there on the front page. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Good point. Yeah. [00:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Probably would make sense for the guy on the podcast. It would read the blog, wouldn't it? [00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you'd be the only one. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Duly noted. Okay, well, Dallas did not play this weekend, but it probably feels like a good time for us to bring up a couple of points to talk about as they do play San Diego on Wednesday and then San Jose on Saturday. Santos. Wait, which one's here? Which one? Oh, Santos. San Diego's here. San Jose's on the road. Correct. [00:03:37] Speaker C: They're both here. [00:03:37] Speaker A: They're both here. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, they're both here. Okay. Sorry. Good Lord, don't yell at me. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Sorry. I just get excited that there was two home games because you know how good they are at home, so I'm high for that. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's your favorite thing in the whole world. Watch him play at home. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Craziest thing in the whole world. [00:03:54] Speaker B: The thing that is kind of looming out there, that is of interest, is the fact that show the midfielder extraordinaire. So show zone is coming up fast and furious. Are we all just working under the assumption that he's adios, amigo? [00:04:13] Speaker A: I mean, I think so. You know, the. The price is high enough, you know, for the amount of production you're getting on him, but I think you might as well go in a different direction. You've also added since, you know, since he joined, which was, you know, and effectively in a lot of ways, just sort of a Paxton palm of emergency replacement. The fact that his contract was, you know, ran June to June sort of just tells you that that's true. And you've added, you know, Ramiro and Kaik and legit back. And, you know, there's just. Diego Garcia is coming along. There's just no need really anymore. You know, Pax Muhammad was getting minutes as. As worried as we are. You know, know, I just don't even need to carry him anymore. So, like, certainly, like what it would cost probably to. To buy him and what it would cost to pay him to stay is not worth the production you're going to get him, get from him. And given the way this team plays, you probably don't really have a spot for him in the starting lineup. So it just doesn't make any sense. Even if you love the guy, business wise, it doesn't make any sense to me to keep him. [00:05:19] Speaker B: All right, but let me, let me throw in a weird twist, okay? I, I don't think it's unfair for us to say that our DEFCON level on Paxton, Palm McCall is rising. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:36] Speaker B: And, and I mean, maybe that'll all work out this week. Maybe Paxton's in the 18 and gets the sub in this week and we're back to DEFCON. Wait, what's, what's the lowest for? Is it DEFCON 5 or 1? I always forget. Where does DEFCON roll? Do we know? [00:05:49] Speaker A: I don't remember. I think one is the top. [00:05:51] Speaker B: But let's just roll with the idea that one is like we're, that's probably an inappropriate time to talk about nuclear bombs. But you know what I'm talking about with, on Paxton, we're all calm. Okay, so we're all back to. Paxton's great. But if he's not, let's say he was not. Let's talk about shows value at that point. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Well, you know, if, if you lose, if Paxton's gone and not available to be playing, you know, I don't think it changes very much. He's played like 30 minutes. So, you know, you could. It just means that Diego Garcia might get a few minutes or that seeking something might get a few more minutes. It doesn't really change anything. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:34] Speaker A: You know, the problem with Paxton, of course, is the million dollar salary, which they'll have to, if he can't play, then they're gonna have to deal with that. [00:06:40] Speaker B: But have they used their buyout this season? [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah, no, they used it at the beginning of the season. [00:06:45] Speaker B: That's right. [00:06:47] Speaker A: I, I think with, with, with, with Paxton. I don't think show necessarily, you know, gives you enough that it's like, I think the international spot and the senior roster spot and the needs you have in other positions would take a precedence over what you're going to get for show. Even if Paxton is done, you know, I'm not saying he is. I'm just saying like, you know, there's sometimes we have some worries and that's the whole point, you know. And if Legit's back, you know, Delgado is proving that he can really bring something in that position. Even though we found out later on that he was a 10, he's looking pretty positive as an 8. Pedrinho has shown up and does some good things in that position. You know, I just don't think, you know, that's like five players we've listed since they hired show in the first place. And I honestly don't think that what we've seen from show this spring doesn't matches what he did last year in terms of his ability. And like, there seems to be some real physical hang ups at this point, you know, perhaps related to whatever it was that made him out for so long. So I, I think that this doesn't make any sense to keep him in, in a current state of affairs. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Which is weird because a year ago, I mean, not a year ago, the end of last season, I would have said, oh, that's a nice looking piece. Yeah, keep that guy. But. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Six months later. Nope. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Counterpoint Dan by chance now just, just. [00:08:04] Speaker C: Get rid of him. You use the, I mean, we've, we've been talking about needs for the roster. You need salary space, you need a national spot, you need, you know, all of the things that, that he occupies. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Well, I guess going into these games and if, assuming he leaves and with the transfer window opening, what is it, six weeks away at this point, middle. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Middle of July, I believe it's July 27, but you know, his contract runs out June 30, so like, there's a, there's a misalignment there, you know, so you'd have to execute the buy right now. And I just don't think it's worth it, you know, and so you'll be short a guy for a little bit, but, you know, he will be, he could theoretically be around this week with these two games because he went away for an international and so he theoretically could be back. He had a game like, I think it was Friday was his last game, but at the same time, like, do you bother to bring him into town for seven more days and two more games? I don't know. It depends on how you feel about your midfield. Depends on how, like, as far as we know, the only problem, like, Ramiro's hurt, right? But Kaik is back. Paxton probably still has a little bit of a knee swelling or whatever from that knee bruise or whatever. And really, that's it. You got everybody else finally, Jess. Fine, you know, plenty of bodies. [00:09:23] Speaker B: So assuming they do move on from him at some point in a future episode, we'll have to have a conversation about the significance or lack thereof of his signing last season. When they made it. What his impact, he did or didn't have the cost. You know what? It came at the expense of those kind of things to just kind of make a judgment as to whether or not that was a good or a bad signing or loan at the time. So we could do that some other day. [00:09:49] Speaker A: As you pointed out, we have a month till the window. So like, there's gonna be plenty of times to talk about, like, what they should do in the window as we go forward, because they can't really, unless somebody's a free agent. Like if there's a guy who's out there right now as a free agent, like this week when show leaves, like if there's a dude sitting at home, like, I mean, I'm not saying this is happening, but like for example, Yara Mindy, you could actually sign him. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker A: And like tomorrow if you want to. Or not tomorrow, next Monday. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Well, the good news is they play these two games back to back or essentially back to back at home. And so they play Wednesday, San Diego, a team they lost last to five, nothing. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:26] Speaker B: And Saturday against San Jose. What was the San Jose result? I have totally forgotten what the San Jose result was, but those games now have two full days in between them both. Buzz, what are we looking at in terms of lineups or, or what do you think Quill's plans are? [00:10:44] Speaker A: Well, you know, his team just had a pretty decent break. A week and a half without a game. You know, they had a little time off. And then after the game on Saturday, they don't play again until the next weekend. It's a Friday game for Independence Day. But you know, again, plenty of time to recover. So I don't think you really need to rotate much on these two games. You might, you might want to a little bit, but you don't need too much because of the fact they're going to get rest. They got rest in front and they only have plenty of time to recover afterwards. It's not like back to back midweek games or anything. So, you know, I, I, I, you convinced me a little bit last time that the, of the code, the theory that the coach should continue with who won the game. And so maybe you're right that Alvaro gets to go again. I'm a little bit worried about that because, you know, San Jose and with Bruce arena is a, know, a pretty solid team. You know, and I don't, I think you don't want to just throw a rookie out there until he dies. You know, hey, you're, you're gonna play until you screw it up. You know, that's kind of tough when you got a young kid like as young as he is and he just turned 20 I think, you know, so he's not, not like he's a baby but you know, the other option is a boubacar basically. So with, with those two games I think you might give Alvaro one of them and have a bugar, have the other one and have AB play twice, you know, assuming that Oz Regiday will not be back yet as we understand it. So other than that, you know, I legit had a. Clearly had a minute restriction last weekend at the 60 something minutes. So he probably can't play both 90. You might be able to start him in both if you sub him out. So look for that, you know, Kaik probably has to go twice since Romero probably wouldn't recover that fast. If Ramiro's out for the Wednesday, he probably is also out for Saturday. That's a tough turnaround. He's not going to heal that fast really. We just keep an eye on. Otherwise it's pretty self explanatory, you know, it's Diego Acosta, it's Anderson, Julio, it's Peter Musa. You know, can Paxton come off the bench? That's a question. That's about it. I mean there really is not a whole lot of, you know, the only real battle is Nolan versus Marco Faran. The only battle I see in the team, like nobody else is up for competition, you know, not right now, not with all the injuries. [00:13:04] Speaker B: I think. I also think that this is a really critical junction of the season overall. Like if this is going to be a make or break kind of playoff team, getting these two home wins based on the fact they've only won one home game all season is kind of a big deal at this point. [00:13:21] Speaker A: You gotta start getting traction at home. If you can't start winning some home games, you're not going to be able to climb the standings like they want think they're going to be able to do. You know, you can't rely on road wins to get you into the playoffs, you know. Dan, how are you feeling about these two games? Do you think you'll see some rotation here? [00:13:38] Speaker C: It's tough because like you say they've got a full week's rest or I guess six days rest before the, the July 4th game. But kind of crucially it's, it's three in a row at home. They're not, they're not, they're not having to travel. They've just come off the enforced week off. So. Yeah, yeah, I mean it depends what the walk in wounded looks like to me. [00:14:03] Speaker B: And it does pose those San Diego wins a quite a test because in their last eight games, holy cow, they have one six, tied one and lost one six one and one in their last eight. How nice does that look? [00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we talked about this last time Dallas faced San Diego. Mike Averris can a coach apparently Dan and I know how odd that feels to say that based on like how everybody treated him here. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Well, I'll also point out that the that streak started with the 500 win over Dallas. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Man, makes you feel good, doesn't it? Made them feel good. You know, you would say like that's obviously the game you need, you need your best 11 for, but any home game, that's true. You always want to win your home games. So it's like you're going to roll out your best team you can for both of those games. I think like we said with the break, I don't feel like there's a load of rotation that really needs to happen other than, you know, load management for legit coming off his injury, you know, and if somebody else like a Romero comes back or something like that, load management of that guy too, because he's a thousand years old. I don't really think that you can say one of these games is soft. I mean it's like they're so desperate to win at home that you need to bring it for both of these games. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Well, San Jose also is coming in on a bit of a, a weird one because in the same eight games, while they've only won three of them, they've only lost once, they four, they've drawn four times. And this is the final game of a massive four game road streak where they 1 in LA 1 nothing. They lost in St. Louis 21 and drew in Portland 11 and now they come to Dallas. So they've only lost once in their last eight. So Bruce arena is bringing it. [00:15:49] Speaker A: San Diego's 500 on the road. San Jose is one game. They're three and four and two. So they're one game under. 500 on the road. These are both two quality road teams. So you're really gonna have to show up. I mean this is, these are not games where you can play kids, you. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Know, Boy, it would super stink if Dallas was to drop both of those games. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean these are the kinds of games like we've had this conversation a lot this year. I feel like there's been a lot of games where you're like you're going to find out what kind of team you really have. And over and over we keep getting the same message. Like it's just a middle of the table team. Like if you go, if you think you're better than that, these are two games that you should be able to win because they're at home. Right. You know, if you're better than, if you think you're better than these teams, you need to win these games for sure. I don't think that they are. [00:16:32] Speaker B: All right, we'll know a lot more about it when we do the podcast next week. Before we move on from all things football club Dallas, you got anything else, Dan, you want to chit chat about? [00:16:41] Speaker C: No, I think, I think the only thing that kind of caught my attention a little bit was just the, the Paxton Palmer cold Hawk. That, that type of injury, that bone bruise, same thing that you saw with George John a few years back where it's, it's like a players eternally day to day, they'll get good days, bad days, same as like back spasm, something like that. They may go a couple of days and can suddenly play. They may, they may not. In George John's case, he never played for FC Dallas again, but hopefully with Paxton it falls on the, the more positive side of, of that. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Well, as the president of the non family fan club of one Paxton Paul McCall, I am obviously rooting for the best of outcomes, but I also am prepared for the reality that the surgery that he had for the type of long term wear and tear that he had was pretty high risk and wasn't for certain would work. And I'm just not 100% sold on the bone bruise claim. I mean this new medical staff is so committed to the idea of kind of being vague and shady is not the right word, but kind of misdirecting in terms of communicating what injuries are even internally within the club. So anyway, it just, it, it to me if, if it was just a guy that hadn't had an ongoing knee issue and a giant surgery, I'd probably be more likely to buy the bone Bruce thing. But I'm maybe I'm just being a little too pessimistic. [00:18:14] Speaker A: I don't know. Yeah, I'm with you. Like the, the minute he played over 30 minutes, it came crashing down to earth with this, you know, issue. So like it could be a totally unrelated issue, but it's the kind of thing that makes me incredibly worried. [00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:27] Speaker A: For the kid, you know, and we've known him Peter since he was 14. You probably know him longer than I have since I 15 years old, you know, and, and we obviously want the best for him as a, you know, a guy who has bled for this club for over a decade. So I, you know, my fingers are crossed in every way possible, but I just am really worried about him. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yep, for sure. All right, well, let's move on to some results around the Dallas Fort Worth area with our other professional and semi professional teams. North Texas had been on a good run, Buzz, but they fell to Vancouver too. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Yeah, they're, they're getting a little hurt personnel wise because, you know, a couple of call ups that have happened with some of the injuries. You know, Digger Garcia's up with the first team instead of down with them and Alvaro's up instead of down with them, you know, and then they've also had some interesting choices. You know, I, I watch a kid, Ali Azura, play the best soccer he's played in a year and a half ago, struggle, injuries, he was amazing. And then the next game he didn't even get off the bench. I was like, man, he was amazing last game. How's that not getting rewarded? So I'm a little confused about some of the choices sometimes. It's a, it's unfortunate. Tarek Scott is definitely not. Something's not working with that kid. He's not producing this year, you know, and, and seems to have lost confidence. Sam Sarver, of course, is going to gangbusters and looks like a guy who could legitimately help FC Dallas if he really, if they needed him. You know, maybe that'll happen by the end of the year, we'll see. But otherwise, like they've got, you know, I think, I think they had five high schoolers playing in the game the other day. You know, 17 year olds basically starting, which is amazing. It really is. You know, there was, and there's only one kid over the age of 20, so it's a really young team. So they really struggle defensively sometimes to close games out and hold up a cohesive defensive effort. But they also went up against Jackson Castro, who is a Solar kid playing and went to Plano west and like leads the league and key passes. He's a phenomenal playmaker. I would have loved Dallas to grab him coming out of the draft, but his dad's a coach for Solar, I believe, and is the next pro and stuff like that. But you know, they put a double six formation in there and I was like, man, how are you guys going to be able to keep the ball away from Jackson Castro at all. I mean, just tackle them all the time, I guess, but someone's got to be able to pass in there a little bit. So I was confused by that. You know, it's just I think sometimes with all the mixed personnel, John Gall's looking for answers as much as anything because all the pieces are moving all the time. But that's the nature of North Texas sc, the nature of that side. So you. I enjoy watching it because of watching guys try and progress and get better or worse as the case may be. You know, some guys that I was really hoping to see some progression out of, I'm not. And so I'm like o that's not as worrying, you know, Momo Cse, for example, looks like he's getting worse, not better. And that's not good. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Where they sit in the standings at. [00:21:18] Speaker A: This point, I believe they're still second. I did not check that today, but you know, they, the season is just halfway mark for them as well as SC Dallas. So like, you know, there's lots of time left to climb the Stings. They've dropped a third after the, after the loss. St. Louis has jumped them, but St. Louis is pretty good. You know, it's just they're still at the top of the table. They still have a lot of talent, they're still winning games with a lot of kids, which is what you want. But at the same time, you know, it can be chaotic because of the personnel changes, because they're, they're secondary to FC Dallas, which is as it should. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Be, you know, and I'll be darned. Texoma continues to go on a run, their sixth straight positive result. They're 40 and 2 in their last six and they got a 32 win over second place Charlotte Independence, which ironically is coached by former Dallas Burn manager Mike Jeffries, which I had no idea he was coaching the Charlotte Independence. [00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah, he's kicked around in MLS and USL for a bit, you know, so he's still working. Coach, that game was crazy. Salama Asante scored with literally seconds left and I think got hurt and injured himself. The other midfielder, Osmos Spangler, scored an absolute banger of a goal right before halftime. But crazy goal and really I think you have to give credit the most of the credit. Obviously they've made some changes in the coaching as part of it, but they switched keepers like a month ago and I'm pretty sure that the keeper they switched to is 40 and 1 and the keeper that was before was 03 and 2 or something like that. Like, you know, that one change has made a huge difference for them, which is not to disparage the former keeper, but when you put a guy in and he proceeds to win, you know, get results in five straight with four of those wins, you know, that's. That's a remarkable turnaround with one really dramatic change. He's not the only guy. They got a couple other guys in too. But that's pretty remarkable that. I mean he was the league player of the month of May, not keeper of the month player of the month, you know. And they've continued to roll since through July. June, excuse me. So they have a. They're up to seventh now, which is two spots above the playoff line and they're climbing the standings. I mean Charlotte and Vince came in. In second place and they beat him at, you know, at home, of course, home field advantage, but they beat him. So that's pretty remarkable. [00:23:47] Speaker B: That's quite a turnaround because the start was rather dire but not unexpected for an expand, you know, a brand new club. So. [00:23:54] Speaker A: And they had visa. Dan's talked about this a bunch. They've had some visa issues getting everybody in the country. Everybody is. It's not just them but you know, it's just where we are. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:01] Speaker A: So they had some trouble getting everybody into town and playing because of that, you know. [00:24:06] Speaker B: And then Dallas Trinity announced another international game. Now this time they're going to play it during the state fair, which is kind of interesting. On October 18th of this year, Big Techs and Dallas Trinity will rec welcome in the women's team from Club America. And that I'm sure that will be well attended as well. And that's a really good opportunity for them to win some new fans too. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah. That game was announced a while back, but the opponent wasn't. I believe we have not had a podcast since the opponent was announced. [00:24:34] Speaker B: I think that's right. Yeah. [00:24:35] Speaker A: Club America. That's why I put it on the run sheet here. So I don't know anything about Club America. Femin. Feminil. Is that how you say that? So. But you know, that'll be a fun game down the Cotton Ball. I was thinking about dragging the. My wife down to that. Enjoy the Cotton bowl and the in the state fair would be fun. [00:24:51] Speaker C: As I said, I think that'll be a kind of a good measuring stick for. For Trinity as well. So America just finished the fourth in the CONCACAF W Champions Cup. Lost to Portland Thorns in the third place game, lost to Gotham in the semi final. I think they got a win in the group stage against another NWSL team. So there's, you know, you've got a pretty clear. As clear a measuring stick against NWSL clubs as they're going to get without directly playing. [00:25:24] Speaker B: One is. Is Club America, the one that has the women's team with the girl, the woman on it that hit that ridiculous goal this year that everybody was saying was gonna win the Puskas award? Yeah, the. The. The back heel. [00:25:39] Speaker C: It was. It was. Yeah, I think it was an aircraft. [00:25:42] Speaker B: It was one of the two. Yeah. I can't remember, like, Jackie was her name or something. I remember talking about it on the radio show, but I don't know if she's on that team that'd be worth going. Maybe she'll do it again for everybody. [00:25:53] Speaker A: You guys may be surprised to learn that The Dallas Trinity second season starts exactly two months from today, August 23rd. [00:26:00] Speaker B: That's ridiculous. [00:26:01] Speaker A: Which is crazy. So, like that, you know, if. If they do a usual six month. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Hold on, wait a second. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it starts in two months, August 23rd. They run a fall to spring season. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Okay. Did it run. Did it start this early last year? [00:26:17] Speaker A: Pretty much. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Wow. [00:26:18] Speaker A: And if they do a six month. Sorry, if they do a six weeks camp, that means they're going to start camping, like two weeks. [00:26:25] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:26:27] Speaker A: No, if they go six weeks, they may not, but that's what the teams that we're used to covering do. Six weeks. So we'll see whether they do six or not. [00:26:36] Speaker B: But be interested to see where Lexi Mismo is in her recovery. [00:26:40] Speaker A: You know, they said she'd be back for this season, but you're right. Does that mean opening day? Does it mean, you know, so we'll be. She's pretty key. You know, they. They battled on without her, but, you know, the whole thing's built around her, so they really need her back. And, and, and it'll be interesting to see they have not made any player move announcements. So, like, we're really waiting to see what they're gonna do. And I think, you know, Dan and I'll put our heads together and come up with some suggestions for them. Not that they would listen to us, but like we do with everybody that nobody listens to us, so. Right. But meanwhile, like, it's. It's just. I wanted to bring it up because it's like I was talking to my wife about it and we were like, holy crap, Is it really that far away, that close? It's like, yeah, it is. Yeah. Their opening game against Spokane Zephyr is on August 23, 7:30pm at the Cotton Ball. [00:27:22] Speaker C: I think they started August 18 last year. [00:27:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, this is, you know, time. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Is flying by, guys. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. Wait till you find out how old you are. [00:27:35] Speaker B: Stop it. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Speaking of the Cotton bowl, by the time people listen to this, the Atletico Dallas event at the Cotton bowl take place. And what is this whole event for? [00:27:50] Speaker A: I believe it's a city of Dallas sort of, you know, introducing the team in the stadium partnership. You know, they had the city council meeting and then this sort of. This is. I think this is the follow on, like, press event, media event for, you know, people to come down, news stations to come down, do the interviews. There's the thing they sent me talks about, you know, individual interview availability, polar availability. You know, it's that kind of. Of course, it's at 10am on a Tuesday, so that means none of us will be there because we all have jobs. But you know, for the. For the normal medium, perhaps they'll be down there. And so you might see some athletic odal stuff on the news by the time you're hearing this podcast. [00:28:29] Speaker B: So I will say I'm kind of impressed with how much they've just essentially embraced the concept of playing at the Cotton Bowl. They're going full tilt boogie on this team deal and all their, like, social media stuff and the imagery and everything they're doing. I mean, they're committed to doing this and. Well, yeah, I mean, I know they kind of have to, but I mean, there's. [00:28:52] Speaker A: I mean, I can't imagine there's a deal in place for anything else. Like, I can't imagine that there's a deal in place for what's next. So, like, they're gonna have to be all in on this for the. Until for a couple years. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Oh. Oh. At least. Yeah. But my point is, is they don't have to. They. I mean, if they wanted to, they didn't have. They don't have to focus on the fact they're playing at the Cotton Bowl. Like they're making. They're. I think they're trying to make a valid attempt in a marketing strategy to try to make the Cotton bowl cool again, if that makes any sense. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And an expression of their. Their Dallasness, their investment in it. We're the Dallas team, you know. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker A: With the way they have some of their merch just says Dallas on the front of it and that kind of thing. So, I mean, they're definitely running with that thing and fair play to them because It. If they're actually playing in Dallas, they get the right to do that, in my opinion. [00:29:36] Speaker C: So was the SMU playbook from a few years ago when they had all the. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker C: SMU is Dallas's team and every neighborhood on. On different ad boards. [00:29:47] Speaker A: That was good stuff. It was a good campaign. I liked that Dallas merch that they. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Had, and I think it actually helped SMU's perception in the marketplace too. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Yep. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Especially in areas that you probably wouldn't think would care about smu, you know? [00:30:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So city of Dallas. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Let's see, what else did we want to get into? Okay, so the Fort Worth USL situation continues to intrigue, my friends. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:17] Speaker B: So this. We talked about a bunch of stuff, but then this mysterious video popped up that somebody made us aware of that had. Well, I'll let you explain it. Buzz, you explain it. [00:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah, Somebody tweeted at me a third degree account, a video that's a presentation from my women's football symposium. I believe the topic of this one was safety at women's stadiums and facilities. And the people that were, they were speaking at this particular video that was sent to me were guys from a. A group that does stadium design and planning. And the video at the time was public and it very quickly was made private after we shared a couple screen grads from it. But the presentation is fascinating because they share. About 20 minutes into the presentation, they get to Farrington Field as part of their presentation and the rebuild model that's there and the soccer aspect of it, and they don't name it that. I don't remember them naming that specifically, but the, the, the. The images clearly say Farrington Field right on top. And if you look at the images on the roof, on the roof, roof, and it clearly is Farrington Field. And the really important parts was they talked about that project. The reason they brought it up was they, they specifically mentioned that the people that were involved, which I assumed to be the city and, or this team and the isd, they wanted to keep the old stadium intact. So the old classic fairies in the field with the columns and that big, huge structure will remain. And if you've seen the images, I, I tweeted they're really modernizing and doing fancy stuff like on these end horseshoes to, to bring the whole thing into like a bowl. One end is more of like your hotel, a mixed use vibe. The other end's more of a. A seating, you know, and they talked about upgrades to the, to the classic stands. And as you mentioned, Peter Specifically a roof on those classic stands. Very importantly to me, no track. Because by the time you make the service big enough for, for football, professional football, you're going to eat up that area that was the track. Because right now it's American football with track. So all fascinating to see the fact that they instantly made it private, just verified that it's legit, you know, because they could easily just someone could have said no, no, that's not real or whatever. For them to hide it means it's real. So yeah, fascinating stuff. I mean we've learned a lot in the last couple weeks just by accidental leaks of their URL coming out and mentioning a women's team which we weren't really 100 sure of and aware of and we're able to talk about now. And, and these pictures of the stadium lending us to the credence to this idea of this rumor that we had heard that Farrington was likely going to be the place. Apparently it is the place. So smashing venue. The pictures are fantastic. It's a great sight line right to downtown from the main home stand. I mean it looks fantastic. So, you know, they didn't talk about it long, just a couple of minutes in their big. In their larger presentation. But it was really nice. [00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting since both those teams, Dallas and Fort Worth are going to likely start up in 27, which would still be USLC. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll. We'll see with that then. They haven't made any announcements at all, so we don't really know much about any. Any. That would all be pure speculation on our part when they're going to start playing. You would think that maybe they could go women sooner and maybe they would hold off for the Super League thing because they not really have. They haven't verbalized their commitment to the USL championship like Athletico Dallas has. But you know, this is all pure speculation on our part at this point, other than we've learned that it's real and it's happening and then, you know, and there's a man and women seem both. So. [00:34:03] Speaker B: So I got a question, a branding question. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker B: So we all love the concept of them announcing they're calling the club Panther City Soccer Club, Football club, whatever, Panther City. [00:34:16] Speaker A: But I mean they just mentioned that in the thing. [00:34:17] Speaker C: They just said bring in soccer to the Panther City. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Okay, that. Yes. But what I'm saying is we love the idea of them actually calling it that. That. [00:34:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:26] Speaker B: Is that the right and smart name for a brand new soccer league? All that Stuff like Panther City. I mean, I, I, I gotta be honest, I didn't even know Panther City was a thing until like. [00:34:43] Speaker A: Oh, you didn't? [00:34:43] Speaker B: 10 years ago. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Oh, 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a thing for a long time. But no, it's not the right decision. We love it, but that's a bad decision. Know when you're, when you have a new league and you want to call it Fort Worth something, you want to, I mean, everyone in Fort Worth loves the Panther City, but no one outside of Fort Worth is going to care. You know, like, if you were in a market that had multiple teams and you know you are, there already was a Fort Worth FC or something, then you would, then maybe you would do that and you'd be fine and happy with it. But in terms of launching a USL Premier League, you know, wherever it's going to be, like, I think it's a bad idea. Fort Worth Panthers, maybe you could buy that. [00:35:19] Speaker C: I think one, one important thing there is, you know, look at Atletico Dallas. There is a lot of emphasis on, on trying to get a connection to the city. I'm trying to get a connection to the, the Spanish language audience. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:38] Speaker C: They'Re to my knowledge and, well, I guess the Fort Worth cast, but there's certainly not a professional sports team of any variety that currently has the name Fort Worth. So an instant way, kind of. They're not professional. [00:35:55] Speaker A: Oh, fair. [00:35:58] Speaker C: So, you know, an instant way that you can kind of build that affinity in the city is to, you know, is to be the only, the only pro team in town that, that, that has that name. But then, you know, you always risk the, the possibility of having like an, an FC or a City or United or whatever. Atletico obviously went with that very individual route, which also kind of targeted the, the Spanish language audience. So it's probably more delicate in, in Fort Worth than Dallas to a degree. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I'm really, now that I start thinking about this, if you really want to connect to the community, and again, I'm not from Fort Worth and I don't really know how big of a deal pan people of Fort Worth, I'm gonna guess it's kind of a thing that they really love and dig and, and connect with. So naming it Panther City would make a lot of sense to con, to build that community and that connection with the community. But I also agree with Dan that calling it Fort Worth and being the only professional team with Fort Worth in your name has a lot of value because I, here's the thing, Buzz. I'M not sure calling yourself Fort Worth holds any more value or importance outside of Dallas Fort Worth than Panther City does to the rest of the country. Like, how many people heard of Fort Worth? Well, okay. [00:37:16] Speaker C: Even if it's just from Dallas Fort Worth. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah. See, I'm going to guess if you had to ask any random person from la, Detroit, Chicago or New York to point to show us where Fort Worth, Texas is on a map, I think we'd all be shocked to find out how few, what, what low a percentage of people could do that. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe there's also a city politics angle. Like. Oh yeah, if they're going to help you invest in this stadium, like, you better call it Fort Worth. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. That's a really good shout. Yeah. [00:37:45] Speaker A: And you could easily be, you know, Fort Worth Panther fc. Or you could. Or you could make Panther City FC like a tagline. You could just be Fort Worth FC and then put, you know, Panther City FC on the back or Panther City or whatever you want to do. There's a million ways to market and spend that as a secondary or a tag or a nickname. You know, even just calling the Fort Worth Panthers. Could we. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just going to say could we go old school American sports naming nomenclature. Just call it Fort Worth Panthers and leave it at that. And leave the stupid FCSC ding dong crap that I still am upset with. Lamar Hunt over off, please. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Yeah, easily. So yeah, for sure. Just four with Panthers would work. [00:38:23] Speaker B: God, what a Pandora's box set man opened. [00:38:26] Speaker A: He really did because everybody since then has gone with the FC thing. Pretty much everyone or two or an sc. Like when was the last time we had a team named something not FC or sc? [00:38:36] Speaker B: It's like the soccer version of the Wuhan virus. It just took over everything. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Just. Yeah, I mean even clubs that have other names now will still tag the FC on there. You know, like Tampa Bay, son of the. Of the super league. They're actually Tampa Bay Sign fc. That's a huge will unwieldy name. It's just too much. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Too much. All right, well, I guess we'll keep every. So do we. By the way, website length that is mysteriously disappeared. YouTube videos that are now been made private. Do we have any idea what when we're gonna find out anything about this Fort Worth entity? Boys and girls, men and women. Excuse me, men and women's team. I'm so sorry. I'm still working. [00:39:16] Speaker A: You're getting it. You're getting there. Okay, you caught yourself. All right, well that's the Thing is, like I, I've said before, and I know you guys know this too, that like, we had heard enough stuff even before the URL or the stadium video to know that this thing was happening. Yeah, I have no idea. Like, I would have thought for sure you would have heard something by now. So they must be waiting for something. Maybe they're letting Athletico get all the air out of the room so they can then come in a little bit later with like a, you know, and not. Not fight them so much for brand new team. You know, authenticity, you know, something like give them some space to then come out later, like in the year or next year even. [00:39:50] Speaker C: You know, I think in honesty, if I were them, I'd probably sit on it just to see if Atletico announced too soon. Yeah, because it's kind of hard to hold, you know, interest with. Yeah, we're not going to play for another two years. But, you know, here's some stuff that's. [00:40:07] Speaker A: A very good point. You know, like if, if they're not playing, like if they were playing in a month and a half, you'd be like, con. But, you know, obviously they're not playing this season in USL Super League, you know, and if they really are going for premiere and not championship, maybe they're going to sit on it for a year or two, you know, for all we know. We just know that these things are progressing at some level behind the scenes. So we keep waiting for it to happen. [00:40:27] Speaker B: All right, so I told everybody I would. I wanted to throw out a theory. And this is tied to a tweet buzz that you shared. I don't know if you did it publicly or you just did it in the group chat from Alan Reed. Now, Alan Reed is, is formally the guy that ran all of the. The ground head groundskeeper, I guess, is the official term for FC Dallas and left a month or so ago to take over field operations for the Dallas Cowboys. And we all kind of looked at each other and went, well, it's not like Dallas has a lot of grass fields they got to manage. And sure enough, today he puts out a tweet announcing his start at the Cowboys and overseeing the practice fields at the Star and Frisco. Now, I was just by pure coincidence, I had dinner at the Star at the Cowboys club a couple weeks ago and I can, I can officially announce that they still only have one grass practice field at the store. And so I, you know, the obvious answer is, okay, what's going on with Alan? Did he just. Is this a more prestigious job Less pressure, more money, a combination of all those things. Why would you do this? And that's obviously would be a completely reasonable and fair answer. You know, the Cowboys are obviously a hundredfold a bigger deal than FC Dallas. And I'm sure the prestige of being their main, main grounds maintenance guy is a big deal. But after going to the AT&T Stadium, the Death Star to see that really boring game we watched last night, Buzz, the grass field was down again. And Dan, I know you some about, you know some of this. I've got a friend who is actually on one of the crews that does some of the installation of this stuff. And the field installation this year for the Gold cup was very different from the year prior. So don't forget last year during the Copa America they did this massive installation with an AER irrigation system, a foot worth of topsoil before they put grass down on it, blah blah, blah blah blah. Well, this year they did the decking on top of the concrete, but then they put instead of 2 inch sod, they put 4 inch sod down and they hand watered it and ran UV lights on rollers over it. And I gotta say when we went in there last night and they had already played two games on it, I thought the surface looked fantastic and played fantastic. I don't know how any of the players or coaches felt about it, but this, you know, with the big installation of the grass field for the World cup coming next year, which is going to require them to do some over coverage of the ground suites in the corners to give them all the footage and square footage they need for the proper size World cup field. I just wonder with all the NFLPA stuff going on about grass fields and this, that and the other. I just wonder if what we're going to find out is after the World cup that they have figured out a way to install grass inside a dome stadium like this and replace parts and pieces of it if need be. And part of Alan Reed's move is that he's part of that project to put grass in AT T full time. Just a theory. [00:43:52] Speaker A: That'd be amazing. Yeah, I know they have multiple versions of the turf that they roll in and out of there, whether it's a Cowboys game or a college game or a high school game. Soccer field. Yeah, and I've watched him do that turnover. It's amazing how fast it happens. You know, maybe he's involved in a greater level of complex management or something, you know, but, but maybe you're right. That's a fascinating idea. I would Love to see. I mean, I've always preferred grass for all my sports. I would love to see cowboys play on grass, but I don't know if that's a Jerryism that might not happen. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I can imagine taking a higher profile job and going from like literally 47 fields to one grass field. All seems like very smart career move on Allen's part, but I just. Something about this just seems that this is a big. There's more to this than meets the eye. And with. With the Bernabeu and Tottenham stadium, both of those retractable grass fields that essentially go underneath the stadium and live in a grow light environment and are retracted and put back out mechanically on essentially long stretches of panels. Well, why couldn't you do that manually at AT&T Stadium? I mean, the only difference we're talking about is, is how you maneuver those panels. Instead of a robot doing it, why can't humans move grass panels in and out of the stadium as need be? [00:45:18] Speaker A: No, that would, that would be it. Just like where you'd put them like in between, like if you weren't using them, you know, I don't know, you'd have to have some. You'd have to eat up one of your parking lots or something to have a grow area or. Yeah, it's a fascinating question. I don't. Obviously we don't have the answers to it, but I think you raise a fun theory. Okay, I should ask Alan. All right. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Anything else, boys? Under an hour. Look at us here. [00:45:41] Speaker A: Yeah, the. The Academy season has ended. [00:45:45] Speaker B: Oh. [00:45:46] Speaker A: So now coming up next, I'll do. [00:45:48] Speaker B: FC Dallas won all the trophies, I assume. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Nope. Anyone? A. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Is this the first time they've not won at least one age group? [00:45:57] Speaker A: No. Oh, no. They've not won a championship in a good long time. The last one they won might be the year after they won two at the same day. Like the year after that. I think they won one. I think that might have been it. So like, that probably would have been like, you know, when paxton was like 18 maybe. [00:46:19] Speaker B: That might have been awesome when paxton had two good knees. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a long time ago. I mean that was like six, seven years ago maybe since they've won one. You know, I think like if you went back and counted the amount of actual youth championships Dallas has won, FC Dallas has won his academy. It's probably less than 5. [00:46:34] Speaker B: Really? [00:46:35] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a lot of teams in the world in the United States, and these divisions are crazy. There was just this. There was this golden era before all the other MLS teams sort of woke up where, you know, under Lucci and Oscar, where they happen to win two one day, you know, and they won one the year before. I think they won one maybe not the year after, but the year after that, something like that. And that's really about it. So, like, you know, it's not like Dallas has won a billion youth championships all the time. It's like it just. That's a bit of a misnomer, you know, like it was they. People talked about the LA Galaxy, I think won back to back and everyone's like, oh my God, it's crazy. We haven't seen this since Dallas burned at it. Obviously Dallas did it, you know, basically. So, you know, they, they won that. That one particular age group won like this, the 16 and the set, or the 17, the 18 back to back. And also the one with the 16 one time and it's all three. That was basically the why people talk about that FC now it's that way. It doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people think. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Well, I know this episode is short, but trust me, with two games coming up, the next one will make up for that shortcoming. So don't, don't despair. Dear Curious. [00:47:47] Speaker A: Oh, by the way, I got derail. What I was trying to tell you there was that I was go, I'm gonna do my academy signings list for the summer next week or two, so. [00:47:55] Speaker B: And for those who listen to the pod that care about the idea of Wiggle Butt Soccer Club, the products are now up on the interweb for purchase. There are T shirts, a couple hats, coffee mug, both a full color version of the logo and a vector version of the logo and a whole bunch of backstory. I spent a lot of time writing up and wasting a tremendous amount of time on. I've tried to set the prices as low as I can. And for those who listen to the pod, we have a promo code of up the butts which will get you 10% off. So go get you some Wiggle Butt goods and let me know what you think. And everybody that gets an order also gets a very special surprise. Oh, if you've ever ordered anything from the kick around, you know what the surprise is. But if you order something from the store, you'll get a surprise. So there you go. [00:48:50] Speaker C: Surprising. [00:48:51] Speaker B: Clearly a rousing success and everybody's excited. [00:48:53] Speaker A: For me to say about it. I said, yeah, that's great. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Wow, Pete, those shirts really do look cool. I can't wait to get one myself. Well, we should just had one in brown. [00:49:10] Speaker A: I like the flat logo better than the fancy logo. How about that? Just like I do with Athletico. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Yeah, See, I think I like the Vector logo too, but a lot of people love the full color logo, so we'll see. We'll see what sells. There's both of them up there. [00:49:23] Speaker A: I like the animated gif of the Fighting Corgis. [00:49:26] Speaker B: That's fun. Yes, that is pretty hilarious. The snarling Corgi. Okay, well, anything, Dan, you got anything else all talked out? [00:49:36] Speaker C: No, no. I think the only thing. The only thing I was going to mention was the Gold cup attendances in the week. Obviously down in line with everything else. [00:49:46] Speaker B: There was actually more people there for the US Game than I anticipated, although it still felt very sparse. What was the announced number, by the way, Dan? [00:49:56] Speaker C: 20,000, 918, I think. [00:50:00] Speaker B: Man, that did not look like 20,000 people at all. [00:50:03] Speaker A: It's a big stadium. [00:50:04] Speaker B: It is, but I remember when they used to say 20,000 people at the Cotton bowl when it was 75,000, and you were like, okay, there's no way there's 20,000 people. [00:50:12] Speaker C: I mean, that's. That's still a win compared to the first two games, which combined for 24,000. [00:50:21] Speaker B: Oh, it was a combined attendance of the two games last night at 20. [00:50:25] Speaker C: No, no, no. That's how all the double headers work. [00:50:27] Speaker B: But okay. [00:50:28] Speaker C: I mean, like, so the. The two. The other two US games were 12,610 in San Jose and 11,727 in Austin. [00:50:38] Speaker B: I see. Okay. [00:50:39] Speaker A: Austin's not a soccer town. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I was really kind of surprised by that turnout in Austin, but the prices are ridiculous and all that stuff. [00:50:47] Speaker C: Yeah, well, they're doing that. The dynamic pricing, because I wasn't the. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Point of dynamic pricing that if the demand is low, the price goes down? [00:50:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it's just. It's not reacting that way because I, you know, they have a very limited amount of parking passes, so I ended up having to buy parking, which is expensive. And the cheapest ticket at that time was still $68 for. You know, they only opened two of the five tiers at at T Stadium, and those weren't full. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Well, and I'm sad to report that the U.S. men's National Team, at least. At least in this iteration, is even more frustrating to watch in person than they are on tv. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that was a rough game. [00:51:36] Speaker C: And just, Just, just carry on with the. The attendance thing, really. Mexico and Wednesday also struggled. They got 34,000, which was, to date, the second highest attendance in the Gold cup so far, but they averaged 67,000 AT&T Stadium. [00:51:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a low. That's a poor turnout for them. [00:51:55] Speaker C: It's actually the. The second worst attendance they've had in that stadium. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Too much soccer. I can't believe I'm actually saying this. [00:52:03] Speaker A: You taught you buying my theory? [00:52:04] Speaker B: Just too much. Too much soccer, man. [00:52:07] Speaker A: Oversaturation. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Yes, for sure. All right, well, speaking of that, no more soccer talking. Thank you, Dan. [00:52:14] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:52:15] Speaker B: Thank you, Buzz. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Yeah, up the butts. [00:52:17] Speaker B: Up the. But that's it. That's the kind of reaction I need from my friends, my supporters. Come on, Dan, say it for me. Come on in your full British lilt. [00:52:27] Speaker C: Up the butts. [00:52:29] Speaker A: 3Rd Degree the podcast is brought to you by Wiggle Butt Soccer Club. That's right. For over 100 years, Wiggle Butt SC has brought you the same brand of chaotic and joyful soccer is amplified by 11 corgis kicking a bell around on a pitch. Wiggle Butt sc. For all your merchandise needs. Check out the Kick around shop at fourth Wall. Get yourself some Wiggle Butt SC swag. Wigglebutt sc, the friendliest club in the world. [00:52:51] Speaker B: And thank you, DFW soccer. Curious person, you. We will speak to you next week with a whole bunch more to talk about. In fact, two FC Dallas games. On the next episode, third degree, the podcast. [00:53:02] Speaker C: So much butt stuff. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Third degree. The third degree. The third degree. The 3rd degree. 3rd degree. [00:53:18] Speaker A: The 3rd degree. Sam.